PoE not casual friendly enough

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Pyrokar a écrit :

Game should be more transparent for new players, I agree. Maybe support gems' names should be changed into something like "melee damage on full life support that interacts with an appropriate active gem, after you insert it into an accordingly colored socket of a gear piece that is linked with the socket of said active gem". Way better!

I think you forgot "superior" :-D

lmao though.

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Fruz a écrit :

You read that he wanted pre selected passive right ?
That is too hand holding imho.

You still remember when you started playing PoE?

My passive tree at lvl53 had exactly two %life nodes taken in hardcore then. There is nothing wrong with a blue-print passive tree that gives you a clear indication of what the games is based around.

I spend a year +- teaching myself the mechanics and layers of PoE and i am lucky that i have the time and willingness to do so.
But i don't delude myself into thinking i am the norm when it comes to the potential future players of PoE.

Getting a workable base-line is far from owning tier13+ maps you know. Maps and end-game content would obviously still require a person to get more involved and in-depth knowledge of PoE.

But with a system to ease them into that knowledge, they might actually stick around until that point.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : having an in-game list of mechanics, with a direct link to the PoE-wiki would do a lot for players unfamiliar with the game i think. Maybe add a message to warn that this source is maintained by the community.

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Boem a écrit :

You still remember when you started playing PoE?

My passive tree at lvl53 had exactly two %life nodes taken in hardcore then. There is nothing wrong with a blue-print passive tree that gives you a clear indication of what the games is based around.

I spend a year +- teaching myself the mechanics and layers of PoE and i am lucky that i have the time and willingness to do so.
But i don't delude myself into thinking i am the norm when it comes to the potential future players of PoE.

Getting a workable base-line is far from owning tier13+ maps you know. Maps and end-game content would obviously still require a person to get more involved and in-depth knowledge of PoE.

But with a system to ease them into that knowledge, they might actually stick around until that point.


edit : having an in-game list of mechanics, with a direct link to the PoE-wiki would do a lot for players unfamiliar with the game i think. Maybe add a message to warn that this source is maintained by the community.

I remember a bit yeah.
I just wanted to try, to play with the tree.
Would there have been a pre-selected tree, I would have done anything but it I think, honestly.
Some tips, or a tutorial passive tree of 15 nodes as I propose could just teach the basics, the how to.
But pre selected build ? hell no

An in game manual would be really a basic feature that the game needs imho.

You are right Boem, how could I forget? "Superior melee damage on full life support that interacts with an appropriate active gem, after you insert it into an accordingly colored socket of a gear piece that is linked with the socket of said active gem". Way better!

And of course we shouldn't stop there. Another example is "Orb of fusing currency that fuses gear sockets together in a random manner"
"Rare Astral plate gear that is used in the chest slot"

While i agree that game "needs" some kinda tutorial-mode, in-game manuals etc. goes out of hand pretty quickly.

How many pages that would be?? How many "pages" doe sthe wiki have??

I think you'll get the point :D

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Fruz a écrit :

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Boem a écrit :

The OP is correct.

And the players opposing this notion are not doing the game as a whole any favors.

Take note that the OP is not asking for the game to become a casual fest, what he wants is a way for casual players to be drawn into the game and it's complexity gradually over time.

You read that he wanted pre selected passive right ?
That is too hand holding imho.

OR

We could have a tutorial mode ( let's say something that only lasts 10 or 15 levels in areas unrelated to the story line ... 15 passive points skill tree, with pre selected passive or tips when you select one).
But no pre selected passive on the current skill tree, please no.

I think the casual mode I described is pretty much a tutorial in itself. I think it would be cool for players to start this game, feel like they have the hang of it, feel like a badass as they watch their character grow and the build comes together, and then reach Merciless and quickly realize how shit they are and how difficult this game can be. They ask themselves how the hell anyone can be good at PoE and learn that really good players actually master the game's complex mechanics. There is no easy mode.

I think there are at least 3 or 4 distinct levels to the learning curve of this game, where a player improves significantly and then stalls out until they learn more and experiment and eventually reach a new level of understanding.

This "casual mode" I described would carry them through the first level.

This isn't "hand-holding" someone into maps. This is a really fucking long tutorial.

And just FYI, what I'm describing is exactly what my experience has been. The difference is that I played Diablo 2 for several years and am far more motivated than the average person to master this game, despite the crazy difficulty. My friends won't even touch this game. I literally cannot even get them to install a F2P game that I have hyped up like crazy, because they know from my experience how hard it will be to get into.

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PyleWarlord a écrit :

"Hi new player, please read this 256-page manual and get things started"

Why not? That's exactly how playing RPG-s looked like in the 90's (and before). When you purchased the game you got a big box and a fat book in it. And some of us were kids back then, with bad English proficiency. And manuals weren't translated, because communist legacy was slow to adapt to capitalism... :P

Heck, the first game I ever bought (legally) - C&C Red Alert - had a 110 page booklet in it. And that was a RTS.

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I disagree with OP. Getting a pre-fabircated 1-click casual start, would just lul players into a false sense that PoE is non complex (sometimes complicated), and they would just get rekt later. It's better that players have a tough start, so they know exactly what are they getting into.

But GGG should add more info in game, for the important (and sometimes obscure) things, that cant be just guessed intuitively. Maybe some sort of condensed in-game wiki, that would fill with relevant gameplay / mechanics info, as the player progresses through content.

I dunno. I think all they need to do is have more step-by-step in game tutorials and it would help people a ton.

Simple things like walking you through creating your first 4 link item. Or giving you a set of gems and explaining chromas.

Similarly, there needs to be better in game tooltip/help pop-ups that let you know simple things like "It's okay to travel for nodes". Maybe even indicate that most players aim for X% of life in the tree.

My biggest problem when I started is that I was afraid that my dps would suck if I kept taking travel nodes. +10 dex, +10 int...over and over and I'm thinking "is this actually buffing my damage or will i be stuck doing dock runs till level 80?"

A lot of the reasons players use guides is not because they are lazy, but they are afraid to spend so much time into a character (on their own) that might not end up working.

All the game really has to do is be up front with players

"Did you know that on average most players take X% life in the tree?"

"Reflect damage may be a serious concern later in game. Beware of only taking damage nodes!"

"Links are very powerful! Adding links to items makes you more powerful, but becareful trying to get 6 links! Because it is so powerful, it is VERY rare. Beware when using fusings to 6L a chest"

"New to trading in path of exile? Check out Poe.Trade to see if there any items you may need!"


Just simple tips like this in clear visible locations (maybe even loading screens in a big font) would help people I think.

^

Well a lot of the loading screen lines are completely outdated, some lines like those would be welcome imho

Like someone beside me said :

"Make it harder but more beginner friendly" - PoE doesnt hold your hand like most other games, but that shouldnt be the case at least in a first act.

Too mamy people quit before even getting to cruel and it has nothing to do with difficult encounters or overall skill cap. There is just no information about besic shit like mechanics (one has to search on unofficial wiki how shit works).

Beside that difficulty past act 2 Merc should be increased in difficulty - older players already get to maps in 6-7h thats ridiculous. Game needs to be more challenging for them.

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Fruz a écrit :

Well a lot of the loading screen lines are completely outdated, some lines like those would be welcome imho

Okay, but that's not enough.

There's a certain internal contradiction in "a lot of players don't like lore, let's keep it all text-based so it's easily skippable" and "let's give new players a bunch of written instruction so they can figure it out on their own." Are they skipping text or not? If they aren't skipping because they need help, they're going to be reading all of that lore looking for more help, too, and not finding it. Hell, I bet a lot of new players quit because they locate, essentially, a talking rock in some sand, then they listen to it hoping for some kind of useful gameplay info, then rage when all they hear is lore nonsense and nothing at all to help them decipher the game's ornate mechanics.

Basic "starter" builds should be highlighted/recommended in the passive tree, until and unless the player goes to Options and turns it off. I don't even consider that debatable. Which builds, how the system recommends which passives, that's debatable. But new players shouldn't have to read a wall of text or locate a build guide to copy prior to actually playing the game.