PoE not casual friendly enough

I'm sure you've seen a million suggestions already about how much of a "casualfest" PoE is, so hopefully mine are a little different. And just being up front, I'm basing everything on how much I enjoyed Diablo 2 and what I think made it such a great game.

Suggestions:

Casual mode - simplified tooltips, predetermined passives, preselected quest rewards

Part of the ARPG experience is feeling accomplished after sinking hundreds of hours into the game, and like it or not, part of that is downward comparison - being able to compare yourself to newbies/lowbies. PoE is missing that in a large way because it doesn't appeal to casual players. The learning curve is extremely steep. Maybe that was intentional in the beginning, but I don't think it's doing the game or its community any favors. It leaves us with a bunch of hardcore players complaining because their favorite build isn't as godlike as another. They only have each other to compare to, and they have completely lost sight of how fucking well they have mastered this game.

Newbies should just pick a class, click "Casual," maybe have two builds per class to choose from, and then have all the work done for them except finding gear with the right sockets and links. This will get them through Normal and partially through Cruel before they have to wise up about gear choices. Maybe even intentionally gimp the casual builds so that they really struggle by Merciless, forcing people to transition to hardcore mode if they want to make it to endgame

And even for non-casual players, tooltips don't have to explain exactly what they do all the time in every scenario. For instance, the tooltip for Blessed Orb, instead of "Randomises the numeric values of the implicit properties of an item," could read "Reforges the base properties of an item." People can (and should) look up more details online if they are curious about specifics. Every time the game's text overwhelms and confuses someone, it will turn them off a little bit more, and I think one of the main problems is trying to be too specific and thorough.



Emphasize parties

I think it would help a lot if characters log in right at the Noticeboard with the list of public parties shown. This would hopefully encourage people, especially new players, to party up. Global Chat is nice, but I really miss how D2 forced people together. I also miss being able to scan the list of games for newbies and hopping in to drop some free loot on them or free rushes. It was also fun to make rushing and power leveling public so other people could benefit instead of just the one who paid for it. D2 also gave people the option to restrict their games to only players of similar level, so if they didn't want help from higher levels, they had some control over that.



Cut scenes

I'm sure this is a budget issue. Can you crowdfund it somehow? MTX specifically for cut scene fundraising? Cut scenes would make it feel like a complete game. Diablo-style scenes would be ideal, but Torchlight-style is okay too (for now).

when I saw your title I was already getting myself against your post because I think the game should be harder in general for older players.


But at the same time maybe a casual league or mode for casual player could be nice. Maybe yes it would help more people to get used to the game.

I agree with the cut scene, their videos are great, effects and arts, and I always think that the game would feel much better with.

Tree selection could be nice and an ingame "search" option aswell.

Everything the game could be hinges entirely on the online servers and the online experience.

E-v-e-r-ything .

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HippieRonin a écrit :

ch I enjoyed Diablo 2 and what I think made it such a great game.

Suggestions:

Casual mode - simplified tooltips, predetermined passives, preselected quest rewards

I threw up inside a little

some games dont support casual modes. why does this game need to ?

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It leaves us with a bunch of hardcore players complaining because their favorite build isn't as godlike as another.

see this is the main problem people fail to understand. some of us arent biased or discriminating because of some 'favorite' build. some of us dont have favorite build.

we want MEANINGFUL CHOICE and BALANCE

see, this is what your casual mode takes away - CHOICE and ability to fuck up. you're railing yourself to basically developers showing you a 'good' way to play the game instead of actually figuring it out yourself. why ? this game's lion chunk of gameplay is theorycrafting-customizing builds.

there are many games that do casual modes well with preset skills, passives, etc. why do you need complex games with big customization to do that ? why ?

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grepman a écrit :

we want MEANINGFUL CHOICE and BALANCE

see, this is what your casual mode takes away - CHOICE and ability to fuck up. you're railing yourself to basically developers showing you a 'good' way to play the game instead of actually figuring it out yourself. why ? this game's lion chunk of gameplay is theorycrafting-customizing builds.

there are many games that do casual modes well with preset skills, passives, etc. why do you need complex games with big customization to do that ? why ?

Dude, what are you talking about? If you are so good at the game that you can craft a build that one-shots everything at endgame, then you're really fucking good at the game. Congratulations, your hundreds of hours of hard work paid off! You are basically breaking the game by knowing it well enough to exploit its mechanics. If there was a flood of newbies like in popular games, then you'd always be aware of how long the road to mastery is and how exceptional you are to have mastered this game. Not every endgame-viable build has to be equally powerful. It's like people expect the game to provide a lifetime of challenge and possibilities. Where does that kind of entitlement come from? That's asking a lot from developers.

If you like the challenge of making an off-meta build work, then go for it. If it's endgame viable then you did well! What the hell are you whining to developers for that it's not as powerful as something else (or that something else is broken because it's more powerful)?

And with the casual mode that I suggested, it's just to help people get started. Hell, they could intentionally gimp the casual builds so that they really struggle by Merciless, forcing people to transition to hardcore mode if they want to make it to endgame. I agree with you that the heart of the game is in sandbox-crafting custom builds.

This game does not need to be more casual friendly in the slightest. What it needs to be is beginner friendly.

I have had to say this a lot lately, besides my girlfriend I have had 3 friends try this game. One was a closed beta supporter who decided the game genre wasn't for them, the other two tried at the official release, saw the skill tree for the first time in Lioneye's Watch, pretty much shit their pants at the lack of any direction in options and quit. The tree and gear mechanics need to be introduced to new players in a way that makes you want to try to make your own character the first time. Instead if I see anybody I know gaining interest enough to try I have to tell them to follow a build guide until they understand everything or they will get frustrated and probably quit.

There are too many gem and passive options for people going in blind. I wouldn't mind the game getting a tip screen at the start "Since you are a (insert character here), these skills are ideal for you right now. X skill gets stronger with y supports, z skill with w supports, etc that give them idea of where to start testing things out themselves. Similar in game tips to start a tree would be nice too.

Don't make them super intrusive and forceful but make the prevalent.

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HippieRonin a écrit :

Cut scenes

I'm sure this is a budget issue. Can you crowdfund it somehow? MTX specifically for cut scene fundraising? Cut scenes would make it feel like a complete game. Diablo-style scenes would be ideal, but Torchlight-style is okay too (for now).

One part of the game I truly love is that it DOESNT got cutscenes. It is absolutely not worth the time and effort. It takes you right out of the gameplay experience. And it doesn't add anything meaningful to the gameplay itself (you know the core of a game).

To put it blunt: cutscenes are solely for those players who want to get the game's lore spoonfed.

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Reinhart a écrit :

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HippieRonin a écrit :

Cut scenes

I'm sure this is a budget issue. Can you crowdfund it somehow? MTX specifically for cut scene fundraising? Cut scenes would make it feel like a complete game. Diablo-style scenes would be ideal, but Torchlight-style is okay too (for now).

One part of the game I truly love is that it DOESNT got cutscenes. It is absolutely not worth the time and effort. It takes you right out of the gameplay experience. And it doesn't add anything meaningful to the gameplay itself (you know the core of a game).

To put it blunt: cutscenes are solely for those players who want to get the game's lore spoonfed.

While I love Diablo's cinematic cutscenes, I agree, PoE is absolutely fine as it is lacking cutscenes and adding them in would actually just make me feel like they lost creativity and think they need to mimic the Triple A titles.

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HippieRonin a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

we want MEANINGFUL CHOICE and BALANCE

see, this is what your casual mode takes away - CHOICE and ability to fuck up. you're railing yourself to basically developers showing you a 'good' way to play the game instead of actually figuring it out yourself. why ? this game's lion chunk of gameplay is theorycrafting-customizing builds.

there are many games that do casual modes well with preset skills, passives, etc. why do you need complex games with big customization to do that ? why ?

Dude, what are you talking about? If you are so good at the game that you can craft a build that one-shots everything at endgame, then you're really fucking good at the game.

no, that isnt true. knowing how to build a build that is super powerful in endagme is extremely easy, even to a newbie. especially if you have access to internet.

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You are basically breaking the game by knowing it well enough to exploit its mechanics.

there is nothing about exploiting mechanics in todays PoE to let you one shot everything.
knowing base skills and support gems for it and the concept of 'more damage' is basically enough. its not rocket science, its not 10 days of learning, its not even 1 day of learning. with wiki its like 30 minutes of learning.

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If there was a flood of newbies like in popular games, then you'd always be aware of how long the road to mastery is and how exceptional you are to have mastered this game.

all this requires is time invested, and not even a lot of time invested anymore.

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Where does that kind of entitlement come from? That's asking a lot from developers.

there is zero entitlement- the game had more meaningful choice and balance before. Im not asking for anything amazingly expensive. I NEVER demand anything. And- GGG has done a lot of balancing before they've succumbed to power creep, keeping the game and most builds relatively well balanced except for a few exceptions.

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If you like the challenge of making an off-meta build work, then go for it. If it's endgame viable then you did well! What the hell are you whining to developers for that it's not as powerful as something else (or that something else is broken because it's more powerful)?

how am I whining ? I replied to your generally poorly formulated post on how people who dont like power creep are only worrying about their favorite build. I pointed out its a bunch of bullshit.

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And with the casual mode that I suggested, it's just to help people get started. Hell, they could intentionally gimp the casual builds so that they really struggle by Merciless, forcing people to transition to hardcore mode if they want to make it to endgame. I agree with you that the heart of the game is in sandbox-crafting custom builds.

keep casual bullshit away from niche games. some niche games do well to tell casuall bullshit to walk because their complexity and punish-ability from the get go is more than any casual gamers can bear.

unfortunately, not true for PoE due to it being a fairly straightforward game to anyone who played arpgs before.

and what this does, is casual players playing poe, realizing its not casual and then, starting DEMANDING things, ie the entitlement you yourself mentioned.

if it was up to me, every niche game wouldnt even have a fucking tutorial. every niche game would teach you how to swim by throwing you in a lake. you swim and want to continue, good. you might be made for this game. you drown, you drown. if he dies, he dies, to quote a famous movie