PoE not casual friendly enough

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HippieRonin a écrit :

Interesting ideas. My opinion is that attempting any kind of tutorial on how to properly build a character would just overwhelm people anyway. You have to be seriously motivated to tackle learning that, which means you're already the type to go to the forums and read up on builds, ask questions in Global Chat, and figure things out for yourself. I've probably put a good 50 hours in this game this season and I still feel like a newb. There is just so much to this game. I don't know what debuffs are on me 90% of the time. I don't understand how corrupted blood works or know why I'm bleeding half the time. I haven't figured out a lot of the corrupted bloodlines or what mods like "Otherwordly" mean. I'm running T5 maps now and I have no idea what "Elemental Equilibrium" means. Every unique I've ever found that looked decent turned out to sell for less than one Chaos (I just don't get it)... I haven't even touched crafting yet, and I am already constantly looking things up on the wiki and asking questions in chat. It would take a damn textbook to teach this game.

So yeah, new players want nothing to do with the passive tree. They want to progress through the story and grow stronger without thinking. They want hours of uninterrupted play before getting to a point where they have to stop and contemplate the components of a balanced build. They need to get attached to the game before they are willing to invest in it.

All answers are in wiki :

Corrupted_Blood
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Corrupted_Blood
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Monster_modifiers#Nemesis_modifiers

Otherwordly
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Monster_modifiers#Bloodline_modifiers

Elemental_Equilibrium
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Equilibrium

Crafting
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Crafting

etc.....

To learn properly on this game, you must made your own character and fail it the first time. Next step is read build on forum, read wiki, find a good guild and ask question if needed.

Some people are just lazy and complain when they don't have all right now.

My suggestion to improve PoE for casuals:
Add in-game complete guide/tutorial to PoE. It's hard to understand many aspects of the game on 1-st playthrough.

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Rhilnix a écrit :

To learn properly on this game, you must made your own character and fail it the first time. Next step is read build on forum, read wiki, find a good guild and ask question if needed.

Some people are just lazy and complain when they don't have all right now.

So you think it is good gameplay,that i have to read the forum/wiki/reddit to understand certain mechanics IN the game, or to make atleast decent builds? This is the laziest excuse for a much needed tutorial, i have read in a long time.

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traax87 a écrit :

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Rhilnix a écrit :

To learn properly on this game, you must made your own character and fail it the first time. Next step is read build on forum, read wiki, find a good guild and ask question if needed.

Some people are just lazy and complain when they don't have all right now.

So you think it is good gameplay,that i have to read the forum/wiki/reddit to understand certain mechanics IN the game, or to make atleast decent builds? This is the laziest excuse for a much needed tutorial, i have read in a long time.

Yes. This isn't an excuse, all you need you should be able to find in wiki. What is wiki ? Who wrote a wiki/build on forum ? For who ?
Wiki is like a tutorial. His problem => only in english, there is no translate in other language.

I apologize to not devellop more but i have my limits in english bro :p

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

Saying there needs to be lore for recommended passives getting a highlight is like saying there needs to be lore for loot filters. No; both are clearly UI overlays, not part of the actual game world. All you need is an option to turn it the labels off for a moment, if desired.

Plus, adding an NPC means more forced NPC dialogue. Yes, you'd have to force it. Better to just save time.

The loot filter is a completely different story imho, this needs its own UI, that's all.

Passives is not just a UI thing, you could imply recommended "path" without hold the hand of the player.

Tarkleigh could do part of the job, and doing couple of voices is not what is really resource consuming imho.

It is true that some indications about Nemesis modes ( not guessing what a Nemesis mod is, same for blood lines ) could really facilitate some things.
Already existing NPC could do this, it would need couple of new voices.
Or some writings somwhere in the town.

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Fruz a écrit :

It is true that some indications about Nemesis modes ( not guessing what a Nemesis mod is, same for blood lines ) could really facilitate some things.
Already existing NPC could do this, it would need couple of new voices.
Or some writings somwhere in the town.

Here :

http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Monster_modifiers#Nemesis_modifiers
http://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/Monster_modifiers#Bloodline_modifiers

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PleiadesBlackstar a écrit :

This game does not need to be more casual friendly in the slightest. What it needs to be is beginner friendly.

I have had to say this a lot lately, besides my girlfriend I have had 3 friends try this game. One was a closed beta supporter who decided the game genre wasn't for them, the other two tried at the official release, saw the skill tree for the first time in Lioneye's Watch, pretty much shit their pants at the lack of any direction in options and quit. The tree and gear mechanics need to be introduced to new players in a way that makes you want to try to make your own character the first time. Instead if I see anybody I know gaining interest enough to try I have to tell them to follow a build guide until they understand everything or they will get frustrated and probably quit.

There are too many gem and passive options for people going in blind. I wouldn't mind the game getting a tip screen at the start "Since you are a (insert character here), these skills are ideal for you right now. X skill gets stronger with y supports, z skill with w supports, etc that give them idea of where to start testing things out themselves. Similar in game tips to start a tree would be nice too.

Don't make them super intrusive and forceful but make the prevalent.

I absolutely agree with this. Make the game less casual, but way more beginner friendly.
Doing this with some kind of "casual"-mode is the wrong way though.

The Idea of giving predefined choices to players takes away a lot of what the game is about.
Even though I can understand (not support) where the idea is coming from, it would be very difficult since the skill system is bound to the item system. ( you need the right links, colours, and actually gems, while still wanting to improve your gear and so on...)


I remember when I played my first char in Beta, I was positively overwhelmed by the options and "unclearness" the game offered me. I knew there are "usable" currency items, I knew skills are gems which you need to socket, that they are supported in some way by other gems you socket with them and that there is a huge passive tree connecting all classes. This was all I knew and THE reasons I started playing.
And whenever something dropped I didn't know, I was like "cool whats that". Playing at my ultra slow pace, since there was no competition whatsoever back then, it was just "playing the game"

Anyway, I have built the worst Character ever, some kind of Molten shell, Enduring Cry, Tempest shield Templer, with Ice nova backup, because the above was pretty shit obviously.
When after hours of play and countless death I arrived at A2 forest, my build finally started to "kick in" on those apes and I felt joy. Of course, on some point I had to admit myself this is not working as intended, and try something else.

I know this kind of experiencing doesn't appeal to everyone, I would hesitate myself to go for so much investigations on a new game, which I don't even know I want to play that long.

So maybe some kind of "tutorial" could help out. This doesn't need to make the game any more casual at all, just implement a tutorial. Maybe this is actually what the OP is asking for.

It would at some point need to give the player all kinds of Gems, Items, and currency with in-depth explanation and prompt to use them. Something like " you found a support gem, link it with your "fireball" to enhance it or chance its mechanics. Unfortunately, you don't have an Item with 3 Links and the right colours.., here are some jewellers, fusings and chromatics..." ect. You'd need to make it voided so people don't cry about free stuff, but then people can't keep their chars from tutorial to play the real game.

So.. you would need to script the shit out of the tutorial, so they cannot proceed before using the free stuff. If they end up with some free crappy 3links after beating merveil to finish the tutorial, no one would be mad about the free fusings, chaos and exalts or whatever they got on their way.

But again.., if I imagine myself playing that tutorial, it would be damn boring and in al honesty, I don't think I want the community to be crowded with people who need a tutorial like that. There is WoW or D3, why make every game a casual game for braindead ?
I would love to play the game with my girlfriend too, but hell.., she is.. well.., not made for it, and I don't want the game to get made for her.


Also, where I see streamers and their showcasing on the main-site adding allot to the community, they are also harmful in a way. Since everyone can see what is "Possible" in the game, and even if it is only 0.1% of the player base, that is what everyone compares themselves too, thus feeling bad in some cases.

If i would have seen nowadays streams back then, I would probably felt somewhat dumb too.
And this is also part of the problem, no one likes to feel dumb, this is why we have more and more of the "speed/effectiveness/xp per hour/ exalt per hour" meta, and people feeling that they are bad at the game, while they actually are not that bad compared to the majority.

Why does it have to be "Casual mode".

Tool-tips period should be more clear and easier to understand.

There should be an in-game wiki + recommended skill builds + guides (I mean the game is online always) per character.

Quest rewards need to stop being retarded in general and actually useful to a newer player.

When you mouse over gear it should pop-up what stats are being exchanged/change if you equip the newer item over the older one.

Why do we play inventory Tetris, have an auto-sort button for the stash/inventory.

You get the player to play the game first and get addicted, then that person can enjoy all of the complicatedness of the game.

We don't need long stairs to the house of PoE.

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Rhilnix a écrit :

All answers are in wiki
...
Some people are just lazy and complain when they don't have all right now.

I think you missed the part where I said I'm constantly looking things up. Those were just some examples of what a player who constantly looks things up still doesn't know after sinking this much time in the game. I can't research everything at once, you know? I'd be reading the entire wiki before making my first character...

Fixing tooltips or make the information they provide complete (e.g. minions) is not casual mode. It's like the least amount of effort you could put into any development.