Elementalist sucks. Never pick over assassin.
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Yea continue to think that, but i made only original builds in poe - going against the "meta" or the popular choices most of the time. Well since this has turned into an epeen stroking contest, let me grab my meat.
The first completely whole build i had was a CI tri-curse prolif fireballer back when everyone was saying ignite was complete trash and CI relying entirely on regular es regen would never be shit. This was back when there was no established meta right on release of game. I was killing map bosses with the ignite from 1 fireball crit, or killing entire bossrooms in one proliferated fireball burn. Many personal message did i get that this was the greatest build in the game and no other build came close the quality of the build nor played so well as this build from people who tried tons and tons of builds. These comments i get pretty much from all of the builds i choose to make guides on, because they are mastercrafted. In the period where everyone were min maxing the most in poe, around the time spectral throw was ruling, i improved the passive tree builds of those guides because they didn't optimize on the math as much as they thought they did. I also have the best cyclone build in the game at the moment, and when i created it as i was playing this for months back when no one had a clue what build atziri's disfavor would be useful on. I used to talk to the big item sellers and they telling me things like if i ever found a use for it they wanted to know etc, just to give you a picture how early i was on finding the way to use it - plus when i created it it was one of the very rare no aura blood magic builds in a time when everyone stacked auras and could never dream of going bloodmagic build. etc etc i always do extremely well crafted builds if i actually make a guide. Also tons of completely failed builds that i just bury naturally, but some very good in between. I bet if i wanted i could do 1min30second gorge run on ma disfavor cycloner. No whirling blades. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Dernière édition par Crackmonster#7709, le 27 mars 2016 à 08:55:55
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I am not saying you don't know what are you actually doing, I'm just saying that probably you have not a clear idea about what you are not trying. Elemental conflux 100% uptime is quite easy to sustain, and actually it's even possible with most bosses. Golems buff way more then before and actually they are even tanky. And elemental overload makes all even looks better.
I shouldn't even tell this to be honest, free buffs are always welcomed :) I'm not even say that this is better or worse compared to assassin, it just fits very well with some builds, and it's actually not that tragic as you put it. For an Emperor to be just, an Emperor must be patient.
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Of course it is that tragic, it's a major disaster that makes me question my own existence.
I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.
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" That is entirely true. However the issue with the Assassin is that he needs an external source of Power Charges. There are quite a few possibilities, however they always need an investment. The Occultist doesn't get those high amounts, however it seems enough to sustain your charges, exspecially since skilling all those power charges automatically nets decent duration on them as well. The Assassin is really great for going Crit with some of the low crit chance spells. And it is very likely the best for high end builds when all your pieces of gear have max roll crit multi, or you have skyforth etc. at this point the downsides of the assassin are neglectable. But what I noticed with him, exspecially since Lightning spells I used don't provide any defenses is just this. For Cold casters it is nice, because you freeze anything, but for Lightning it isn't that easy. And you don't really start as a powerhouse for crit, you kill everything really quickly, but as soon as something has a few HP more, you have to be really careful, since your defenses suck. When I got my 4 points with about lvl60 I jumped from a mere 3600 dps to 6100 (that was essentially a 3l, since I had to use Life Leech, to sustain my casting). And at this point I thought about switching Increased Critical Strikes with Increased Critical Damage... to my surprise the increase in damage wasn't all that high. At this time all non-crit related supports like Elemental Focus or Controlled Destruction were better. The issue of course was that my gear didn't allow to go to 95% crit without increased critical strikes and my crit multi was still not that high. But this is one of my issues I have with Assassin, I have to really care about those stats, which means I need a lot more specific items. That is not really a new thing for crit, however the problem I see is. I can do all that a lot earlier with an Occultist or an Elementalist. Those builds provide far more immediat unspecific power. They don't scale that well, but they don't have to. The game doesn't have challanges right now that would need this endgame power. I didn't use my Occultist for a caster, however compared to the assassin the ascendancies felt meaningful. When I got my first two points on the Assassin I didn't even care. My Occultist got 100 ES and the ability to keep recovering even when damaged during recovery. That was huge. Then my Assassin got his 4 points and yes he got a major power boost, however the gameplay didn't change much. He still felt weak, because he didn't really got what he needed. He was crit-based already and had a fair amount of damage. And since I had to get all the powercharges there was a lot of traveling involved. He basically had HP and 7 powercharges at this point (or still 6, not sure if I did the ascendancy before or after bandits). When the Occultist got his next two points he got 20% reduced Chaos Resistance, that is at least 20% more damage, against enemies that are not chaos resistant and a lot more against enemies that are. The assassin for me personally is just so boring and his power basically kicks in when you don't really need it anymore. After getting past Cruel Malachai the game is basically over. And this point your char already succeeded. I never had a char that got past Cruel Malachai easily and had issues later in the game. Yes the Assassin might have 20% more damage, however the biggest factor for clearspeed is movespeed anyway at this point, and the assassin provides none at all, so there isn't really any advantage here. Bosses are such a tiny part of the map that his advantage here with his higher damage is completly meaningless. To be perfectly fair the Assassin might win in pure power... if you want to have high tool tip dps. However he is incredible boring. He doesn't enable anything (well maybe you can make an Incinerate Crit caster... but why should you) he just gives a needless increase in power. Elementalist actually does provide things that make him interesting, as does the Occultist although to a lower degree. |
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Meanwhile occultist gives way to some very powerful builds.
The build i'm doing currently is a low life 5 blasphemy curses(warlords, temporal, enfeeble, elemental, conductivity), with wrath, discipline, purity of lightning and clarity. 50% icnreased effect of curses 54% increased effect of auras Can get 8-10k es even with low life. Can use dagger for whirling blades/fortify. Cannot be stunned and i think i will possibly opt for cannot be frozen too. Uses shock nova with heavy increases to the aoe size(at least 72% increased radius possible) and a ton of multipliers(elemental overload, pain attunement, wrath, controlled destruction) etc. Do you realize how easy i will farm everything with that and how little threat everything is with those curses around me? With 5 curses that is an additional 20% damage added as chaos also with with almost constant uptime. Instant leech and warlords curse to life/mana leech - also giefs some endurance charges. Since lightning it can shock, and i have quite a lot of shock chance, at least 39% chance and this is not even counting shocks from crit. If i don't take damage for less than 2 sec my es regen will start and will not be interruptable until my es pool has healed over 100% of its max value. On a side note, It's a shame they done put a cap on temporal chain i was able to get one temporal to i think it was 96% reduction before hahaha - on a 6L cast when damage taken level 1 firestorm curse on hit. I guess it would be possible to do similar without occultist, just makes it possible to invest more passives/gear on energy shield, makes it easier to level/gear and requires lower level to complete the build functionality. Just did some estimations on assassin and it seems i could get 60-150% more dps with that, at the loss of maybe 1200-1700 es, or more if i wanted to go more crit multiplier items instead of es - but would also cost me 1 item slot(need curse item), endurance charges/life leech without vinktar, and mean i needed crazy rares to cap my res and would exclude the possibility of using headhunter, lose other things like on death explosions and uninterruptable es regen, and it would require higher level too, but min maxed could probably get better. So just adding things loosely, with assassin we get probably at least twice the damage, can still reach maybe 7k es with good gear, lose a couple of lesser defensive abilties and features and such, plus some aoe. Overall i will have to conclude shadow can be min-maxed to be well ahead of occultist even for a curse build. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Dernière édition par Crackmonster#7709, le 27 mars 2016 à 13:43:57
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Elementalist sucks so bad that now Marauder and Scion are better for mjolner nd whispering ice again. GG elementalist is the worst.
ProbablyGettingNerfed - L100 Occultist
Vinktarded - L100 Pathfinder GoogleDiversityHire - L100 Necromancer 3.13 was the pinnacle of PoE. IVYS+1 Gang 4 Life. |
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" There are certain maps/mobs an Elementalist will really struggle against. Mobs with very high resists (map bosses in particular with certain resist mods on them) are extremely tanky even when you dual curse them, so non-crit casters have never been flavor of the month really (except Incinerate which just did way too much damage, and Firestorm with Chaos conversion). You need to scale your damage somehow, and Assassin/Inquisitors make far better casters especially when you go crit. I'm sure someone will come up with some interesting Elementalists builds, but in the end they will still suffer from the on kill effects and the fact that casters need to kill shit quickly or likely die. Casters in the end can really only take two to three hits at most in endgame scenarios (maybe like 4-5 if you get ultra tanky and have leech or something), so not being able to kill things fast enough actually does become a major issue, particularly in tier 10+ maps where things start to do ridiculous amounts of damage. |
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" Resistances are basically a non-issue. Penetration-Gems + 20% Penetration from the Elementalist (if you go that route, it is possible you do, but not necessarily). I actually say resistances are always beneficial to casters, since you can assume that almost every enemy has negative resistances. With double curse you get about 50% efficiency on curses, which takes away a lot of resistances too. I would even go so far to say, that ignoring the resistances on the Inquisitor might make you lose damage. The highest native resistance is Merveil I think with something about 50%. I think it was Mark stating that at one time. So there are 2 things to consider a) Penetration basically reduces the max resist of an enemy. If an enemy has 75, 150 or over 9000 Resistance with 20% Penetration he always has 55%. b) Most of the enemies actually have no resistance at all to certain Elements. This means that Penetration always makes this resistance negative, technically being a more multiplier to damage So what the Inquisitor basically does by removing resistance from the equation is potentially reducing his own damage. Ignoring resistances sounds cool and is exspecially nice early to avoid having to use a Penetration gem and it is also nice for Multi-Elemental Setups like Discharge, however for a straight Elemental Caster it might not necessarily be the bad thing, exspecially with 2 curses. And Non-Crit was always a rather solid choice with some spells. It worked with Bladefall, mostly due to the power of the spell to be fair and it also worked with Arc. Crit of cause has the potential to turn any spell into devastation, which does has a fair price on the other hand. " Spells have the biggest amount of multipliers avaible to them. So they suffer far less from not going crit than attacks do. Just compare a non-crit caster to a RT-Melee. The caster can still do fine, the RT-Melee however runs out of options to scale. And with Elemental Overload added there is even more. And again, damage is not an issue. Casters have enough, and for the defenses both Occultist and Elementalist stand far better than the assassin. If the Assassin cannot deal damage he runs into issues. And one example of that could be a simple proximity shield. An Occultist who started ES recovery is almost unkillable for 4 seconds, because he even recovers while taking damage, at a base rate of 16% max/ES per second and can more than double that if I'm not mistaken, so he has a far easier time closing in and killing the proximity shield than an assassin has. The Elementalist on the other hand can basically freeze the entire map permanently because he has Elemental Conflux. And most map bosses either spawn mobs themself or come with a big pack themself so you even have the potential to freeze/burn/shock them too. 20% means that every 5th enemy will give you this buff. And 4 seconds is a really really long time to deal damage mostly unhindered. Of course an assassin with a cold spell has the same options... however the Elementalist can do it with just about everything and with all the damage. Adding more Lightning Damage to your Fireball? Cool more Freeze Duration. Getting an Unholy Might proc on your Bladefall? Cool more Freeze Duration. It is really not that bad. And really the only thing the Assassin provides is the biggest tool tip dps. That is really all. |
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You underestimate how important damage is.
Who honestly cares if the whole screen can be frozen when it dies almost instantly on the right assassin build anyway. The harder content you get the more important the damage gets, in t10+ maps you will see that double the damage will make a bigger difference in this game which is all about clearspeed - as we can apply your argument that "damage" is not a problem(which isn't true) and say that defenses are not a problem(which is more true), since assassin can get enough anyway(and it is much much easier to get enough defenses to make further irrelevant than it is to get enough damage to make further irrelevant) - leaving the most important thing(dps) something only assassin does the best. Assassin is pretty much the only way to really scale damage the most in the game for a lot of builds, especially spell casters and 2handed crit builds who cannot get 95% crit without in most cases without assasssin - and if they do they have insane investment. You never truly need the uninterruptable regen more than you need the double damage potential of assassin - plus you should be leeching anyway. It feels good to have it, but you don't really need it. - also what is this argument that if assassin cannot deal damage he runs into problems? Haha, assassin can always deal damage in fact twice as much possibly than a non-crit caster. However really there are a whole lot of situations/bosses/bad rng where elementalist simply cannot use elemental conflux AT ALL and is left completely without anything useful. This is never the case on assassin. You say assassin only provides dps. This is true, sort of except also reducing corrupted blood damage, but elementalist really doesn't provide anything need or can't get if your build is good enough. Nothing. Elementalist doesn't have jack shit on assassin, once you have enough defense, damage becomes the most important thing in game which is why assassin is the best way to optimize your damage. It is however something that requires more expensive and extensive gearing to gear the assassin. On assassin it can take as little as 12-20 passive points invested to get 400%+ more damage. Just that you are trying to argue to get near-useless defensive bonuses over insane amounts of dps show how little respect you give to min-maxing. Honestly it isn't even close. Elementalist shines the most on those random builds that are having problems if it couldn't freeze really, and if your build is like that it will have bigger problems. Honestly i have no idea what they were doing with assassin - they basically ruined their entire crit balance in game now, they spend so long nerfing/adjusting and everything and now they add something which gives so much crit that it is just through the roof - they completely went against all they learned on how crit damage is the way to scale damage the most in game and make the most overpowered builds. I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all. Dernière édition par Crackmonster#7709, le 28 mars 2016 à 02:09:06
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Emberwake is nuts with Elementalists proliferation & conflux.
Because scaling DPS by number of nearby enemies is insane ya know, especially with elemental overload which acts like a 96% more ignite multiplier. [2.2] The Vampire - Tanky 2H Axe Slayer Duelist - /view-thread/1611662 Dernière édition par Mannoth#4185, le 28 mars 2016 à 06:09:19
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