PoE is punishing, not difficult. Video to clarify the difference.

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Moosifer a écrit :

It doesn't matter. Even if it listed everything a new player (who is reasonably smart) will test and see which supports seem to work best.

The problem is, that quite often things are different, that they seem to be.

For example, recently tried to test if SRSes works better with Multistike or with Faster Attacks. But without combat log, I don't have tools to make fair comparison.

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deteego a écrit :

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Fruz a écrit :

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allbusiness a écrit :

Before you go smarting off and mouthing off again, do realize that good game design is based around making the player aware of why he died, not just simply 'oh I died.' Path of Exile doesn't tell you why you died half the time. Most of the mechanics etc. are not intuitive, such as multiplicative, additive, etc. you have to look that shit up as to how it works. Not every gamer wants to perform a research study when they play a game.

/need a combat log.

Chris is vehemently opposed to a combat log

Do you have the quote about that ? I'd like to know why it doesn't fit in his vision of what PoE should become.

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Moosifer a écrit :

min maxing should require research but most general information is fairly easy to figure out after a couple encounters with said mechanic.

Indeed, it's one of the frustration factors GGG should take into consideration:

1. How easy it is to figure out after a couple encounters.

2. How easy it is to figure out during the first encounter.

3. How easy it is to deal with after it's figured out.

4. How much time does the player lose if he isn't able to figure it out.

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Moosifer a écrit :

It doesn't matter. Even if it listed everything a new player (who is reasonably smart) will test and see which supports seem to work best. Your questions are about min maxing. Which I said a few pages ago min maxing should require research but most general information is fairly easy to figure out after a couple encounters with said mechanic.

Sorry, but no.

As I already said, that logic goes for us, we know what are we doing most of the time. A relative novice wouldn't notice a disco ball on the driver seat of the truck that just hit him, let alone licence plates.

And it's impossible to test right now. We can deduct that spirits do some fire and some physical, but we have absolutely no way of knowing if it's 50/50, 20/80, 60/40 or whatnot. Also, we can't test it for conversion, if chernobog's pillar converted 50% it would have been possible.

Those kinds of things are important. I mentioned a player that had an idea to use snakebite gloves and poison arrow. That's a busted build and wasted time because of lack of info, it's not min-maxing, he had an idea and based a build on something that looks like it should be working but gives no hint that it doesn't.

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Novalisk a écrit :

Indeed, it's one of the frustration factors GGG should take into consideration:

1. How easy it is to figure out after a couple encounters.

2. How easy it is to figure out during the first encounter.

3. How easy it is to deal with after it's figured out.

4. How much time does the player lose if he isn't able to figure it out.

Well normal difficulty is here for figuring it out I guess.

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raics a écrit :

As I already said, that logic goes for us, we know what are we doing most of the time. A relative novice wouldn't notice a disco ball on the driver seat of the truck that just hit him, let alone licence plates.

PoE has most likely been designed for player that try to deduce those things, and make players look for those ways to deal with difficulty.
I'm not saying that the way it is is the good one, but just that it kinda makes sense actually.

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Fruz a écrit :

PoE has most likely been designed for player that try to deduce those things, and make players look for those ways to deal with difficulty.
I'm not saying that the way it is is the good one, but just that it kinda makes sense actually.

Well, yes, they really should hang a sign 'only for beta participants', the game is much more complex than it was back then and it hasn't gotten a lick more approachable.

RPGs are about min/max-ing of skills, gear and synergies, which is impossible, or at least extremely hard, without strictly defined rules and full information about ingame mechanics.

ggg does seem to have a habit of hiding crucial information.


still waiting on the armor and damage number on minions.

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Fruz a écrit :

Do you have the quote about that ? I'd like to know why it doesn't fit in his vision of what PoE should become.

He said in some interview that he doesn't see the case for the combat log, and he has more of a favor towards visual effects that indicate how much damage you are taking (such as when you take shock damage, a lightning shock effect appears on your exile, which is larger for the more damage you take)

Ill try to find the interview when I am bothered sometime, but don't expect a combat log anytime soon

Whatever excuse GGG will find, it doesn't change fact, that hiding details is cheap way of prolongating interest in game. Although it can be understood, that GGG is short on budget, it doesn't change this fact.