PoE is punishing, not difficult. Video to clarify the difference.

well stated Emphasy. Kind of sounds like a TL;DR of my post

"

Kyr205 a écrit :

The difference between punishment and difficulty is not what should be noted here, because to compare the two doesn't do you any good. the game is both punishing and difficult. that's the fun for some people. Not fun for others.

PoE is not "difficult". It's not an easy game but difficult is really something else. Like this chess problem:

Black to move and checkmate in 3.

After watching the video, the game isn't punishing, it's difficult. The problem is because maps are wipe open people can't judge as to when they should be doing certain content and the devs are clearly balancing somethings considering players have amassed incredible gear and are a high level.

"

IlyaK1986 a écrit :

Let's see:

Lack of telegraphing? Check.

Who? Desync doesn't count btw. Ya, desync is annoying but most/all one shot attacks have a lead up animation.

"

Lack of tools to solve problems (aside from tank with face with path of life nodes)? Check. In fact, the vast majority of the enemies in the game exist to be just that, regardless of your build, with differing enemies being something a certain character can't solve. Eva/acrobatics? Vaal rocks, physical spells. Melee? Voidbearers, Kole. Tons of damage in one hit? Reflect. Tons of damage through a zillion little hits? Lightning Thorns.

Let's break this down one by one.

Eva/acro against physical spells - spell block, spell acro, end charges, immortal call (yes I still think eva users need more life but these are viable counters if you don't want more life)

Voidbearers - purity of fire + leech and/or decent regen/pot, spell block or arctic armour (spell block + tempest shield they'll actually kill themselves against the thorns)

Kole - armor, evasion, es, end charges, immortal call, temp chains (easier to see his GS coming), summons (skel totem).

Reflect - armor, evasion, es, end charges, immortal call, vaal pact, purity of ice/fire/lightning (whichever hurts most) AA, block, spell block, acro, phase acro, ondar's guile, granite, jade, resist flasks.

Lightning thorns - purity of lightning, lower aps, (spell) block (not sure which works exactly), phase acro, LGoH, or VP

"

Respawning a mile away from where you died (unless you have CoD+portal)? Check.

Stages aren't that long. Death is intended to be discouraged but even if you die it's no more than 5-10 minutes of running through to remind you of how awful dying is. The video's example is with meatboy, which I haven't played but from the sounds it's intended for you to die so they work with you to remove stupid lead up.

Here you should never be dying to normal mobs, that's a sign you aren't prepared for what they are doing. Most bosses are in areas that are telegraphed saying "boss is here" or they have a separate room altogether like jungle valley and torture chamber. Which if you know you can't face them, skip, if you think you might die, TP beforehand. Game is doing what it can without actually flashing a warning on the screen beforehand.

"

Extreme difficulty spikes? Act 3x, check.

Some, ya I agree.

"

Trying to extend a small amount of content through excessively slow progress and arbitrary difficulty? Check.

Game is inspired by D2 which did the same shit. From the sounds of it the devs are using cruel and merc as place holders until they release more content. Game can be released now so you can enjoy it or stay in beta for years until they have 5-6 acts.

Progress isn't slow at all, just take a look at the 1 week race results.

"

Making a game obnoxiously difficult by having so very many things kill you in a few hits? Devourers, Kole, vulnerability-casting monsters, some things I missed...check.

Devourers are unnecessarily hard hitting and their pack size in maps I hate. Kole, he's a boss with a telegraphed one shot, adjust. If vuln ruins you, carry a curse removal flask.

"

Basically, a game that feels like it wants you to fail at every turn rather than actually succeed?

No, game wants you to overcome difficult challenges. They give more and more options each patch to do so. The one I ignored in all my counters was DPS and stack more life, both are also options for all these problems.

This sounds like the rant of someone who either is trying content too high for their level (just because a map says 71 doesn't mean it's intended for lvl 71 characters) then complaining the game is broken.

"

Jojas a écrit :

"

Kyr205 a écrit :

The difference between punishment and difficulty is not what should be noted here, because to compare the two doesn't do you any good. the game is both punishing and difficult. that's the fun for some people. Not fun for others.

PoE is not "difficult". It's not an easy game but difficult is really something else. Like this chess problem:

Black to move and checkmate in 3.

Spoiler

Rook to F4
White's move.

"

xBODOMxDISCIPLEx a écrit :

"

IlyaK1986 a écrit :

Respawning a mile away from where you died (unless you have CoD+portal)? Check.

Lol.

Also in response to the rest of your post, lol x2.

What you think is "punishing" is exactly what makes the game brilliant to others.

This isn't some average casual bullshit and it shouldn't play like it either.

The game is actually ridiculously easy for casuals if you group play and use a fotm build

Try doing that in a game like dwarven fortress, and well, good luck

Personal grudges of the thread author aside, there is some meat on the boys of this story.

Take that 'evasion vs physical spells' issue. The problem has a solution, yes, but let's imagine this: you made an evasion-based 2H weapon user that doesn't use endurance charges, you can't block and going for acrobatics is quite an investment for, say, a duelist. So your build is 100% bust because you can't handle 1% of content and there is no instant solution, everything else you can tackle without issues.
Also, a new player would have an absolutely no idea what hit him, or 'why can't I dodge this and why in the seven hells does it hit so hard when all my resists are maxed?' Not a lot of hints in the game would point to the problem, much less a solution. And no, you can't ask a player to 'go and check the wiki'.

It's easy enough for most of us forum birdies, we're here for ages, we've seen all the changes as they were implemented and tackled new content as it came out, one spoon at a time. The learning curve was much more gentle for us.

The punchline of the video in respect to this game would probably be this: When something stumps him, does a player feel the urge to tackle the problem or just say 'aaah screw this, I'll go and play chicken invaders 5 - chickin coop the grace'. That might be the real issue, the tools are there, it's just that they're often not readily apparent, not readily available or they're just something you simply don't want to use.

"

Kyr205 a écrit :

Rook to F4
White's move.

King to G5.

"

Jojas a écrit :

"

Kyr205 a écrit :

Rook to F4
White's move.

King to G5.

Rook to H4

Funny thread btw.

"

Fruz a écrit :

"

Jojas a écrit :

"

Kyr205 a écrit :

Rook to F4
White's move.

King to G5.

Rook to H4

Funny thread btw.

Pawn F3 to F4