FOCUS ON YOUR VISION - ENGAGING COMBAT!!! SUGGESTIONS!!!

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gr0o0ve#1473 a écrit :

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Pizzarugi#6258 a écrit :

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gr0o0ve#1473 a écrit :

I want to add in here that i think a lot of ignorant people are basing there opinions on PoE1 and 2 while having used a guide or a build for there gameplay. It becomes obvious people use guides when they clearly have no idea what they are talking about in relation to how the game plays completely blind. This bias is creating a negative idea around certain aspects that aren't true in reality.

Could you elaborate on this? My fiance played through campaign completely blind without a build guide and struggled through it, and now can barely hold its own in mapping.

I am talking about the difference in opinion people have on both games depending on wether they used a guide or not. If you do go in blind ye you will get to maps and realize your build is bricked and you have to start again. This process might take several attempts before you start finding something that works.



This imo is the engaging part of Poe1 and 2 that people are missing out on.

I am skeptical on trying and failing to make a build work for mapping without depending on a guide being the engaging part of PoE1 and 2.

This is old information now, but I remember back in expedition league for PoE1, there was an interview where the devs said that most players quit after finishing act content and don't bother with mapping. Assuming that's still true today, it may be a large part of why they want campaign in PoE2 to be slow with engaging combat, but turn into a zoom and boom nukefest in mapping.

Every time I read one of these threads it feels like people who want to sip coffee between every animation are trying to tell a majority of the player base how the game should play. If the game was as "engaging" as Act 1 on a fresh league start all the time literally nobody but this small niche community would play it.

Also, people want to zoom through maps as fast as possible to be efficient in making currency, since that's why a ton of people play games like this. Level as fast as possible, get as rich as possible, get as strong as possible, repeat every league.

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Pizzarugi#6258 a écrit :

I am skeptical on trying and failing to make a build work for mapping without depending on a guide being the engaging part of PoE1 and 2.

This is old information now, but I remember back in expedition league for PoE1, there was an interview where the devs said that most players quit after finishing act content and don't bother with mapping. Assuming that's still true today, it may be a large part of why they want campaign in PoE2 to be slow with engaging combat, but turn into a zoom and boom nukefest in mapping.

I do agree some what, if you look at the achievements and how many % of people complete the end game ones this holds up. In saying this though you look at any game and i bet the end game achievement %s are very low compared to the overall player base numbers. WoW even had devs talking about players not seeing the content they create and feeling as if its a waste of dev time.



My idea for mordern arpgs is that the campaign and endgame (maps) should be the same thing, you progress the campaign in a map style so there is no awkward transition when your "done".

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DonJulio69#5531 a écrit :

Also, people want to zoom through maps as fast as possible to be efficient in making currency, since that's why a ton of people play games like this. Level as fast as possible, get as rich as possible, get as strong as possible, repeat every league.

There will always be a split because GGG made promises of "engaging combat".

I'm so glad they saw through the light and didn't go that route, otherwise that geam would be dead if you had to combo your way through mapping. They abandonned the vision TM.

Altough there are still a lot of fuckery that are occuring, such as ninja loot nerf.

People asking for GGG to stick to their vision at this point are deluded. If they do go full combo and slower, the exodus will be massive.

The amount of deluded teenagers here is ironical. POE is ARPG where you scale your character. The stronger you get the faster you clear. I presume most of the tactical combat enjoyers are not aware of what POE actually is. It is true all content we have now is easy, some may say casual easy, but this is due to lack of content. In POE 1 you need specialized characters for different activities - heist, delve, mapping, bossing, sanctum. POE 2 allows you to have multiple full socketed skills, which in POE 1 was impossible. This gem system alone give you ridiculous amount of power and because it is so busted you don't have the need for multiple characters, one can do it all. Also the Atlas tree in POE1 allowed for some mega content scaling in both difficulty and reward. There is nothing like this here. Honestly POE1 vets feel like they are in kindergarten right now, the game is just too easy. And then I see a thread like this.. game too hard, boss scales much, me cant clear t16 deli maps with leveling gear. Like WTF are you people doing? Engaging combat??? Are you on drugs? This is ARPG, you scale and the content gets trivial, end of story. When we get the old Atlas back you'll figure out what "engaging combat" really is and you'll cry.

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gr0o0ve#1473 a écrit :

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Pizzarugi#6258 a écrit :

I am skeptical on trying and failing to make a build work for mapping without depending on a guide being the engaging part of PoE1 and 2.

This is old information now, but I remember back in expedition league for PoE1, there was an interview where the devs said that most players quit after finishing act content and don't bother with mapping. Assuming that's still true today, it may be a large part of why they want campaign in PoE2 to be slow with engaging combat, but turn into a zoom and boom nukefest in mapping.

I do agree some what, if you look at the achievements and how many % of people complete the end game ones this holds up. In saying this though you look at any game and i bet the end game achievement %s are very low compared to the overall player base numbers. WoW even had devs talking about players not seeing the content they create and feeling as if its a waste of dev time.



My idea for mordern arpgs is that the campaign and endgame (maps) should be the same thing, you progress the campaign in a map style so there is no awkward transition when your "done".

I think the same thing. I don't think the end should be anything too drastically different from the initial playthrough. What this creates is people who either enjoy the campaign and then either conform to the endgame somehow, hate the endgame, or people who know what the endgame is and then build for it through the campaign and complain that the campaign is way too easy. Well of course it's easy, you are building for efficiency when the campaign doesn't reward efficiency. And a problem I personally have with the endgame is that so much of the content is locked behind insane clearing. There are tabs that I have never even seen a single part of that tab slotted. Loot CATEGORIES I have never touched in FOUR HUNDRED HOURS! And I have made a character initially that could clear t14s if I didn't get oneshotted. That was literally my first build and then every other Idea after that was not strong enough. So I just got super lucky that the monk looked cool and just so happened to do enough melee damage to make it to endgame. And then on top of it I had people look at my build and tell me "your passive tree is kinda bad. Go this way." And I think that's a problem. What probably happened is they saw a build online and knew that my build wasn't going to compete at all unless I went that build direction. It's sad man. This game is not fun. Any GOOD game intuitively guides you to fun and then rewards dedication and creativity to solve problems later. That's the endgame typically. This game is not intuitive at all. And I still think that's some people's cup of tea. But there's only one goal in the endgame so the game puts an insurmountable pressure on you to achieve what other players have spent years developing in game knowledge in your builds just to compete with basic shit. Literally ANYTHING in the endgame requires this and it's not fair at all. It's punishing and the players that have spent countless hours devloping and honing are jaded and cannot relate one bit to the struggle of just trying to enjoy the game anymore. Because obviously the original poe didn't start that way. So like I've said before, the only solution would be to stop introducing the same type of challenge to prevent the same type of solution. The only challenge this game presents is more enemies, more enemy damage, and stronger enemies. We need to stop asking for these dichotomous ultimatums and start asking for different forms of challenge and be inclusive. Because once again, people keep proposing that the solution is either make the enemies less and more tanky for engaging combat with more loot per enemy or have more enemies like hordes. But it doesn't matter. The game still pushes you with this problem "KILLING FASTER IS MORE REWARDING." The game keeps rewarding people clearing maps as fast as possible. Add something different!

Leave the zooming in the game but add something equivalent and alternative. The speed builds need a plateau of some sort so that they stop being the only goal.

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Oinkaments#6390 a écrit :

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DonJulio69#5531 a écrit :

Also, people want to zoom through maps as fast as possible to be efficient in making currency, since that's why a ton of people play games like this. Level as fast as possible, get as rich as possible, get as strong as possible, repeat every league.

There will always be a split because GGG made promises of "engaging combat".

I'm so glad they saw through the light and didn't go that route, otherwise that geam would be dead if you had to combo your way through mapping. They abandonned the vision TM.

Altough there are still a lot of fuckery that are occuring, such as ninja loot nerf.

People asking for GGG to stick to their vision at this point are deluded. If they do go full combo and slower, the exodus will be massive.

Good points here!

The vision of engaging combat does not imply a slower combat. To counter this there is the idea of the Adrenalin mechanic just for an example solution.

I think GGG don't know exactly what most people want. The intention behind this question is not the same as for D4-developing process where the developers have no vision and just do what the community wants and goes in this and that direction. The intention behind the question is, that GGG must know if they can go further on this way of engaging combat and don't risk to loose most players.

I would suggest a voting for and against engaging combat but engaging combat needs to be exactly defined for this. I put it on the list.

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SPGD#3221 a écrit :

The amount of deluded teenagers here is ironical. POE is ARPG where you scale your character. The stronger you get the faster you clear. I presume most of the tactical combat enjoyers are not aware of what POE actually is. It is true all content we have now is easy, some may say casual easy, but this is due to lack of content. In POE 1 you need specialized characters for different activities - heist, delve, mapping, bossing, sanctum. POE 2 allows you to have multiple full socketed skills, which in POE 1 was impossible. This gem system alone give you ridiculous amount of power and because it is so busted you don't have the need for multiple characters, one can do it all. Also the Atlas tree in POE1 allowed for some mega content scaling in both difficulty and reward. There is nothing like this here. Honestly POE1 vets feel like they are in kindergarten right now, the game is just too easy. And then I see a thread like this.. game too hard, boss scales much, me cant clear t16 deli maps with leveling gear. Like WTF are you people doing? Engaging combat??? Are you on drugs? This is ARPG, you scale and the content gets trivial, end of story. When we get the old Atlas back you'll figure out what "engaging combat" really is and you'll cry.

Damn this is hard to not react to negatively... You people appear to me like you are into fighting, but you only enjoy beating up preschoolers because you can't handle the idea of getting hit in return.

The ONLY fun part of ARPGs to me is theorycrafting a build, because the gameplay of games like PoE1 and Diablo is utterly soulshattering boring, might I even say absolute garbage.
The entire notion of people enjoying content that is not the least bit challenging is so confusing to me, but I can accept you people. What I can't accept is you guys not just sticking to the games that pander to you. Let PoE 2 try to be what it was set out to be, an alternative to the norm.

PoE2 pulled players like me into the genre, because it promised a change to the old and boring formula. Because if the gameplay consists of fighting monsters and nothing else, then I want that gameplay to be fun. Fun for me equals challenging and with more depth than having to press the same button endlessly.

This garbage about one button builds needs to stop, it's disingenuous. Yes there are a small number of 1 button builds, there also is a greater number of multi button builds, both function fine.


The whole idea of the arpg genre is power fantasy...zero to hero....become a god... This is what PoE1 is. PoE2 is something different that feels like it has an identity crisis and is confused about what it wants to be.



GGG tried to expand there playerbase by capturing the "dark souls combat" people, they surely got the attention of those players, but those players also don't want PoE. Now we are at a spot in development where PoE players don't want PoE2 and dark souls people want PoE2 to be something different and no ones happy.

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

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SPGD#3221 a écrit :

The amount of deluded teenagers here is ironical. POE is ARPG where you scale your character. The stronger you get the faster you clear. I presume most of the tactical combat enjoyers are not aware of what POE actually is. It is true all content we have now is easy, some may say casual easy, but this is due to lack of content. In POE 1 you need specialized characters for different activities - heist, delve, mapping, bossing, sanctum. POE 2 allows you to have multiple full socketed skills, which in POE 1 was impossible. This gem system alone give you ridiculous amount of power and because it is so busted you don't have the need for multiple characters, one can do it all. Also the Atlas tree in POE1 allowed for some mega content scaling in both difficulty and reward. There is nothing like this here. Honestly POE1 vets feel like they are in kindergarten right now, the game is just too easy. And then I see a thread like this.. game too hard, boss scales much, me cant clear t16 deli maps with leveling gear. Like WTF are you people doing? Engaging combat??? Are you on drugs? This is ARPG, you scale and the content gets trivial, end of story. When we get the old Atlas back you'll figure out what "engaging combat" really is and you'll cry.

Damn this is hard to not react to negatively... You people appear to me like you are into fighting, but you only enjoy beating up preschoolers because you can't handle the idea of getting hit in return.

The ONLY fun part of ARPGs to me is theorycrafting a build, because the gameplay of games like PoE1 and Diablo is utterly soulshattering boring, might I even say absolute garbage.
The entire notion of people enjoying content that is not the least bit challenging is so confusing to me, but I can accept you people. What I can't accept is you guys not just sticking to the games that pander to you. Let PoE 2 try to be what it was set out to be, an alternative to the norm.

PoE2 pulled players like me into the genre, because it promised a change to the old and boring formula. Because if the gameplay consists of fighting monsters and nothing else, then I want that gameplay to be fun. Fun for me equals challenging and with more depth than having to press the same button endlessly.

I have been told literally, and I quote "You will not have fun unless you look up a build. The game is in early access and is unfinished. It is nearly impossible to make your own build"
This shouldn't be the case even in early access. And if they keep dropping content in the game that's like "Hey, I'm really hard. I have thousands of enemies and the bosses are super tanky. And everything shoots projectiles that one shot you. Better make an OP build if you want my loot" then what the hell are people going to do?

And even if it doesn't present itself in that way, it still will encourage it. That's what players see gets them MORE. So that's what players will keep trying to recreate. And long term players have been playing so long they have developed tunnel vision and cannot possibly divert their gaze from what they are used to. This isn't a critique it's just a common observation considering that I rarely ever see any unique points being made especially from the preexisting community. Like come on guys. You keep repeating yourselves and new players keep presenting valid fresh points.