FOCUS ON YOUR VISION - ENGAGING COMBAT!!! SUGGESTIONS!!!

It’s like playing your new game+ mode on resident evil with the unlimited ammo. Sure it’s fun for a playthrough or 2 but then you realize it loses all the excitement you had when having to face tough encounters.

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

in an ARPG, where the purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot

Says who?

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 a écrit :

A question for the OP and others in the thread that want slower more meaningful game play. If the whole game is slowed down to .01 campaign levels, where would you get the currency for upgrades? Do you think a company named Grinding Gear Games is just going to drop T2 or higher gear like candy, or drops bunches of currency for just a rare mob kill? Help others understand your logic of how the game could be balanced around that.

The logic behind fun and rewarding combat is that it takes the dopamine hits you get from loot like a gambling addict and replaces it with dopamine hits you get from winning clutch battles like a gamer.

Loot is a means to an end, it shouldn't be the focus. Gameplay should be.

This is an ARPG, I don't get your explanation. You want meaningful fights where you get a dopamine hit when defeating a boss, go play Dark Souls - and I'm not even being ironical here or trying to bash you bare that in mind. This game requires you to farm loot - gear and currency, so you can improve and blast easier and harder. you can't do that now, or at least it's extremely hard to do so, when you can't farm properly and still have hard encounters - where's the fun in that? There's simply no rewards there, and PoE is even harder because when you die, you effectively cannot progress on your tree, you in fact digress on which level you're currently on, so it's even worse because you're expecting to be rewarded, or at the very least for nothing to happen to you, and in fact you're punished beyond just losing the fight - makes no sense. Not to mention that the game play you're suggesting or that you want, it's extremely hard to achieve in a seasonal game, where you're required to progress to get stronger - how to you achieve this? I'm actually curious

With that being said, I also don't want everything handed out to me - difficulty is welcomed and it makes sense, so does RnG and so does grinding for things - but currently PoE takes that to an absurd extreme, where effectively a "handful of player" simply dominate and ruin a market for 90% of the player base because they're degenerate gamers (nothing against them though) or because of botting as well which has been an issue, and the rest is left out to suck on their fingers - because again, in this game, you need to be lucky to get good gear (although it's not the main source of getting strong), or you need currency to get/craft good gear, and it's extremely hard to farm both, because of RnG, because the game got harder in 0.3.1 (nerfs, loot nerfs, harder bosses everywhere, etc) - where's the fun in this? I can respect you in finding fun and enjoying this, but by the responses I'm seeing, GGG vision is not appreciated by the majority, and even though it's their game to design and develop, it's our choice to support that or not, and if they go down this route, then they at least get the title of best ARPG but with a very small community, and then D4 players and D4 is bad, but they make money I guess - but hey, to each their own I guess...

P.S. - I played D4 until PoE 2 came out (never played PoE 1 though) and I believe PoE 2 is miles ahead, with much more potential still to be even better, but it's also my opinion that this GGG vision is not the way to go.

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VaporTrail#6763 a écrit :

It’s like playing your new game+ mode on resident evil with the unlimited ammo. Sure it’s fun for a playthrough or 2 but then you realize it loses all the excitement you had when having to face tough encounters.

Unless there's random loot involved. In which case, people will spend thousands of hours doing the same repetitive boring thing for the loot which is the fun part at that point.

And some people just lack the self awareness to eventually see this clearly.

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iHiems#0168 a écrit :

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

in an ARPG, where the purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot

Says who?

What's the purpose of an ARPG? How many souls like ARPG's do you have currently on the market where the dopamine hits come from defeating a boss? From my experience, those are usually Single Player games, Or at least games where you have much more control over what gear you get and can get and also more control over your progression as a character to achieve your goals, but then again, usually in an APRG, you kill a boss/mobs and loot explodes in your screen, in other games, you kill a boss, and that's it, but hey I could be wrong...

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

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iHiems#0168 a écrit :

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

in an ARPG, where the purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot

Says who?

What's the purpose of an ARPG? How many souls like ARPG's do you have currently on the market where the dopamine hits come from defeating a boss? From my experience, those are usually Single Player games, Or at least games where you have much more control over what gear you get and can get and also more control over your progression as a character to achieve your goals, but then again, usually in an APRG, you kill a boss/mobs and loot explodes in your screen, in other games, you kill a boss, and that's it, but hey I could be wrong...

The term "Souls like" is being tossed around quite often and FAR too loosely. This a type of exaggerated fallacy argument when noone ever directly metioned wanting a souls-like. And most souls-likes hardly do it right anyways. It's another repeated argument and point I keep hearing from people who want to bash a different view without putting any actual thought or effort into a solid response. Provide a valid counterpoint that doesn't exaggerate our intentions.

Lol, and the game already has a mana flask and health flask on the left and right side. Maybe I don't like that. Maybe health and mana flasks are far too souls-like for me. Why do yall like souls-like features in my precious path of exile 2?

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

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ExsiliumUltra#5541 a écrit :

A question for the OP and others in the thread that want slower more meaningful game play. If the whole game is slowed down to .01 campaign levels, where would you get the currency for upgrades? Do you think a company named Grinding Gear Games is just going to drop T2 or higher gear like candy, or drops bunches of currency for just a rare mob kill? Help others understand your logic of how the game could be balanced around that. And if they do,and theyhave for certain things, go the route of handing out specific somewhat deterministic item for certain goal posts? Well.. that would be real lame and insulting.

I also don't get people asking for meaningful, slow, hard play mode or whatever in an ARPG, where the purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot. Not to mention that this is a seasonal game, so how slow or meaningful should it be? Should you take 1 month to go through a meaningful campaign + 1 month of farming meaningful maps until last tier + 1 month of farming meaningful gear and/or currency + 1 month playing the game with what you want/need...? I mean, don't hand out everything on a silver platter, that's for sure! We should grind, RnG should exist and all that, but the game revolves around 4 months seasons, and most people play 1h (maybe 2h) a day, if they're lucky... I would understand engaging combat, ig I fought a boss for 5m, and actually GOOD loot (gear and/or currency) would drop, but the game currently is a clown fest regarding its' rewards. You fight harder bosses on juiced maps with juiced tablets and you get Regal Shards - FREAKING AMAZING BUZZ FEELING! WHAT A DOPAMINE RUSH!


Why do people want this genre of a game to be like a souls like, when this is an ARPG? It's abismal to me... Why not just play, you know, Dark Souls (or any of its' close brothers and sisters)?

I want it because souls-likes have the most fun gameplay out of any rpg archetype out there (my opinion), but arpgs have an unmatched skill and spell variety. I love fun gameplay and I love build crafting, thus it is my dream to have a dark souls poe lovechild I can play and satisfy both my needs.

Fair enough, but then that's not an ARPG. It's a Souls Like (fancy term used nowadays, kind of like Diablo like XD). It makes no sense to apply that here, where you're effectively stuck on your progression and usually no amount of skill will let you progress - you need your tree points to get stronger and you need gear to get stronger. What's the point of running around a map full of mobs you can't kill to get to a boss that you can't kill? That's not the point in this genre of game - you farm, to get stronger, to blast stronger and faster.

Now to be fair, they could introduce a mode, where you just fight bosses, like a tower with infinite floors and you try to fight bosses for ever, which I would also be interested in to be honest - I even think they mentioned this at some point but I could be wrong - but this is a game mode that could exist - trying to apply their vision in a genre of game that effectively requires you to grind and be lucky to be stronger, defeats the purpose of having meaningful fights in the game, because all you will get, is what's happening, the majority of players being frustrated.

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

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iHiems#0168 a écrit :

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BabaVoss#9386 a écrit :

in an ARPG, where the purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot

Says who?

What's the purpose of an ARPG? How many souls like ARPG's do you have currently on the market where the dopamine hits come from defeating a boss? From my experience, those are usually Single Player games, Or at least games where you have much more control over what gear you get and can get to achieve your goals, but then again, usually in an APRG, you kill a boss/mobs and loot explodes in your screen, in other games, you kill a boss, and that's it, but hey I could be wrong...

The purpose of an ARPG? It's to have action and rpg. I don't get where the whole "purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot" is coming from. In this case, you might as well include stuff like borderlands there

At this point I don't even think this game will ever have any sort of meaningful combat outside of bosses, and I don't mind that as long as bosses aren't just the one shot fiesta that they have been, and as long as there's some actually challenging content.

I'm not saying that every monster should feel like a dark souls fight, but to say GGG can't try something new simply because "it's an arpg" is just not the right mindset to have. Like I said before, look at Lost Ark, it was a massive success for trying something new. It didn't work in the end because of the many flaws it had, but the only reason it even stood out was because it wasn't a copy paste of every other arpg like Last Epoch

@Baba

Nothing you are saying makes sense to me. What you are trying to tell me is we can't combine a base racing game with a pvp concept because that is not how racing games work. Well mario kart exists and there is literally no limit to creativity. We obviously can make an arpg cross that has semblance to souls games, we just need to adjust and balance the game accordingly.

PoE 2 wants to have meaningful and engaging combat, that is what this is all about. This entire thread is supposed to be about ideas to make that happen, but it once agains turned into poe1 fans complaining about people having a vision outside of "make poe1 but better".

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The purpose of an ARPG? It's to have action and rpg. I don't get where the whole "purpose is to blast screens and get tons of loot" is coming from. In this case, you might as well include stuff like borderlands there

It could be, yes, an FPS ARPG. But I was basing my answer on every other ARPG you have out there, there's a formula, and loot is a big part of that formula.

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At this point I don't even think this game will ever have any sort of meaningful combat outside of bosses, and I don't mind that as long as bosses aren't just the one shot fiesta that they have been, and as long as there's some actually challenging content.

By all means, I wouldn't mind having that if we had it like before, special maps with special bosses, or like I mentioned in a different answer, a single mode where you would face bosses randomly to test your build/skills/whatever - that would actually be cool in my opinion

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I'm not saying that every monster should feel like a dark souls fight, but to say GGG can't try something new simply because "it's an arpg" is just not the right mindset to have. Like I said before, look at Lost Ark, it was a massive success for trying something new. It didn't work in the end because of the many flaws it had, but the only reason it even stood out was because it wasn't a copy paste of every other arpg like Last Epoch

I understand your point, but the game is marketed as an ARPG, and again, I also think GGG can and should try to make things differently, but this is not working, at least measuring the community response to this. People play an ARPG, they expect to blast screens, big explosions, dogging stuff, runing around, pew pew, lot's of loot in the end. We could have a mode where you have to engage and figth with bosses and what not, but to me, that strategy doesn't work where the end game revolves around killing lots of mobs to get loot, so you can improve or try to improve your character, because what would be the point of the atlas tree, and ascendancies, and gear which has modifiers that make you way stronger, etc?