FOCUS ON YOUR VISION - ENGAGING COMBAT!!! SUGGESTIONS!!!

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AintCare#6513 a écrit :

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gr0o0ve#1473 a écrit :

"imagine reversing that. 'sorry you can play poe1 if you want zoom zoom, poe2 was just a branding get over it'"

Is disingenous and illogical because

"Players of path of exile where told explicitly that purchases of supporter packs would go towards the development of PoE2."

so while 'we' were told that the game 'wont be just poe1 extra acts' your reply with 'was used in marketing, but thats marketing. Sorry to all those got duped into thinking they could turn this into something that wasn't poe, you got duped.'

but if i would reverse that and apply to you. where you were told 'explicitly that purchases of supporter packs would go towards the development of PoE2.' (which btw have 0 indication of how similar poe2 to poe1 would be) with 'sorry you can play poe1 if you want zoom zoom, poe2 was just a branding get over it' which was meant as 'sorry you got duped' with a ~get over it~ vibe of your reply.

Somehow your version is not disingenuous? and totally in good faith?

i also find it ironic that you don't find poe2 direction to be as much poe1-like as it seems to be. imo the slop tactic will continue to maximize reach and turn this into a shallow version of poe1, and neither poe1 nor poe2/methodical combat crowd' will be happy- but none of that matters because money will come. same way how shit movies make bank these days. i also wouldn't be surprised if they merge servers at some point because they wont put up with bunny hopping between two games.

say w/e you want about blizzard but they kept servers up, without DLCs, itemized bloat requiring extra storage under a disguise of fp2. when they actually released a proper Remaster it was true to its former self, with proper QOL like updated keybindings and not relying on AHK macros, without years of hype and lies, without an EA badge (as if entity owned by tencent needs EA type assist) all while still keeping the OG servers up.

What is happening here is borderline fraud.

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AintCare#6513 a écrit :

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Vyend#2601 a écrit :

My unpopular suggestion to make combat more enganging:

Add a small delay to flasks similar to DS, right now you can use flasks even if you get heavy stunned or in the middle of a dodge roll, i personally don't think you should be able to do that

good suggestion. i'm a bit more extreme and so i think this extends further:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3812730

but your 'mild implementation' might be more realistic to ever happen

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Seikojin#1601 a écrit :

I don't mind throwing a curse, or turning one buff off and another one on. I don't mind dodging moves, tanking some hits, using a defensive skill... Well, Witches and Sorceresses don't have that. But doing a few things is fine to me. But doing 3 defensive presses, 2 debuffs, and 3 offensive preps for 1 second of damage bursting is not fun. It is boring.

I like the ideas of combos, timing hits, etc. But I don't like the combat styles those are bound to. I hope they improve so those who like melee, ranged, or pet play have their time and shine.

yea i started as fire mage, and its was button mushing like never b4. gave up after napuazi. and switched to DE, and honestly low dps DE actually offers 'meaningful' combat because the prolif melts the trash away but you are left with tanky rares and some blues that need your actual attention. but then again- this is LOW dps SSF self gimp no craft kinda dps, and even my reses are not capped. pretty wild how far we came so quick with power creep

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Seikojin#1601 a écrit :

This is quite the post. So much energy!

When I saw for a while, rampage counting up, I felt, oh, they just made it into something everyone gets. I don't see it anymore. But that is similar to the adrenaline mechanic you speak of. As you do things, you get growing bonuses.

I think there should be more moves in the rare pool for mobs. Things that add a little more spice to the combat. I did see a few new enemy types in 0.3, so that is good. New combat tricks = more engaging combat.

I like 1 button builds for most mapping. That is what I play in poe1. I like spewing damage all over the screen, killing most things, and moving about and managing the mechanics of hard enemies and overcoming them with actual combat response, rather than just overwhelming dps.

Here, it is more of the burst things down and not worry about mechanics.

I haven't bothered to fight arbiter. I have seen his mechanics online enough to know what I would end up doing, but farming the mats and fighting him isn't a goal. It isn't as fun for me.

I like evolving my desired gameplay style and getting the most out of it every league.

Like right now, I am bored. Maps are boring. I can kill mobs and keep investing to hit the high tiers. I know I am not 1 button and instant rolling through t4 bosses. That is not what I aim to do. I have no qualms engaging in 10 minute fights and winning that way.

However, I do not like being forced to use every keybind in order to get there. Right now, I have to buff, slap a curse, throw some dead air attacks to get some charges to boost more, then do a small burst of damage, reset, repeat. Timing isn't all that important. But doing all those steps is.

I don't mind throwing a curse, or turning one buff off and another one on. I don't mind dodging moves, tanking some hits, using a defensive skill... Well, Witches and Sorceresses don't have that. But doing a few things is fine to me. But doing 3 defensive presses, 2 debuffs, and 3 offensive preps for 1 second of damage bursting is not fun. It is boring.

I like the ideas of combos, timing hits, etc. But I don't like the combat styles those are bound to. I hope they improve so those who like melee, ranged, or pet play have their time and shine.

I like playing ball lightning. Just hoping for more stuff in the caster toolbelt to be enjoyable and fun.

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JohnBlackstar#2650 a écrit :

That are good points here and I merely feel the same way as you do!


I also don't like to throw 3 debuffs, make the mandatory dodge roll and then make the damage move. THIS is the UNFUN way of engaging combat in my opinion

And as this the danger the game can go.
We need to refine the definition of FUN engaging combat that is FUN AND NOT FRUSTRATING!

As you shared your honest feelings I do this also now:
When I think of engaging combat I think of this in my own thrilling way of imagination
"Big foes stepping up to you and starting to wield their giant weapons. I anticipate that move with an escape shot above their heads and outfoot them and chill them so that I have time to channel my next blast. But one foe survived it and had already taken a swing so that I have just enough time to block this hit. This opens up a window for my counterattack and I can knock him back with my weapon to open up an even bigger time window to channel the next powerblast against him! BAM! This is engaging combat! This is adrenaline!

Surely in the definition of FUN engaging combat should not contain unneccessary preparation of multiple layers of unfun debuffs to make damage.
I think FUN engaging combat shines with ACTION MOVE SKILLS with each having their purpose for a different individual combat situation.
As we have for example now escape shot, channeling skills, block <- they are each for a different situation and adds to a FUN dynamic combat.
But they arent in use in the endgame (god I had so much FUN using them in the campaign!).

Lets understand here why they arent useful in the endgame:
(!!! I have tried to make them useful because I had so much FUN with these skills in the leveling process and expermenting with them! This is the reason of this post! Let us having THIS MEGA FUN in the endgame! This is the reason of this post!!!)

- These skills arent useful for example because of dodge rolling! Because dodge rolling is the fastest quickest way to outcombat your enemy I started using onlys this f*** dodge roll and realized I have to use it, because it is FASTER than escape shot, you can BETTER SEQUENCE skills afterwards, it DOESNT occupy a full skill slot(I also ended up searching for rings with + skillslot because of this lol) I think the nerf of dodge rolling is a big thing here!!!

- The other thing why I'm started to let loose on block or channel: You have no time for this! Either you lack on killing speed and there are multiple alternative skills to substitute escape shot because they just do more damage and are faster or you have no time to channel a FUN skill, because you are taking too much damage in the channeling time, block is too slow in killing speed..
I think this slowing down in killing speed can be counteract with a boost after you used a slow skill!
No having time to channel cuz taking damage can be counteract with smart defense options like a momentary shield/guard boost or something(Have you ever tried to make a shield wall around you and having time to channel a supercharged slam in it? Godly! We need more of this and make it viable!).


Another good point which always comes up and which can be a solution for "needing" these "action move skills" are a better version of rare mobs or generally mobs. Because your combat enviroment must make you using these FUN skills and perhaps a little overhaul of the monsters/mobs can achieve this.

These are fundamental gameplay problems with addressing in the beginning list of this post! If GGG can solve them then we will have the engaging combat that is FUN!
And this no easy task! Because of this lets give suggestions or ideas.


And to also address the boss combat thing and with it the soulslike identity problem:

Simple as that: I also don't like to smash a boss for 10 minutes or more. around 2 minutes is ok! But under 30 seconds is time waste and no FUN! And it shouldnt be a merely damage test. This is not soulslike! This is FUN ARPG BOSSING!

In the same way if you think about what is FUN engaging combat for an ARPG its no big thing, its just 2-3 action move skills thrown between your damage sequence..this is FUN! But the need and variety for this must be there!

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I'll join in on this because you seem to get it!

Making combat fun doesn't mean we want to auto attack a dude for 10 minutes while he 2 shots us. For me it means I get to use more than 1 skill and boss fights don't end within 30 seconds and I won't be oneshot if a pixel so much as touches me.

I said it on page 7 or smth and I'll say it again. Monsters need more moves, not just 1 but like 3-7 different abilities and ways to engage us, that force us to actively think about what we are fighting. Fighting mobs and rares should not always boil down to a zerg rush.

And our skills need to be more than different variations of "i touch you, i hurt you"

I want spells like "Forceshield; 20 second cooldown, channel skill; completely negate the next hit, any hit beyond X damage costs X more mana" and skills like escape shot need to be a superior version of dodge. I feel like we are simply missing most of the basic abilities that make rpg-combat engaging.
There is a trifecta of attack, defense and utility skills. We got only attack skills and everything else is pretty much non-existent. Witch does not have a single defensive spell, you COULD call bonecage a defensive tool, but it really isn't with how it is designed. And her utility tools all boil down to "I curse you/ I lower your numbers," the skill system just isn't there yet and there just need to be more.

Layering 2 ground effects for X more damage before attacking is not a combo, casting frost bomb into frostorb into ice nova is a combo and we need more of THAT. Skills that supplement each other to give more variety to our attack angles and abilities.

I honestely believe engaging and meaningful combat will appear on its own, with time, with new classes, new skills and as long as the power creep doesn't keep evolving the way it is now. Just stop nerfing all the bosses.

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gr0o0ve#1473 a écrit :

Imo engaging combat means that i am not thinking about the buttons i am pressing, the skills i am using, i am fully immersed in what ever situation to the point it's me and the boss.

Currently in PoE2 in most situations i am not engaged because i am always constantly trying to get the most dps from my build or just trying to survive.


I keep thinking back to maven and how that fight is the pinnacle of engaging combat for me, it's not frantic, it's complex and challenging.

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This!

PoE1 already struck gold with the winning formula, I have no idea why some want PoE2 to be such a significant step backwards into mediocrity.

They talk of fun and engaging gameplay, they think PoE2 has engaging gameplay but only because they never played endgame PoE1 so their only frame of reference is Last Grim Diablo Epoch 4