FOCUS ON YOUR VISION - ENGAGING COMBAT!!! SUGGESTIONS!!!

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Orbaal#0435 a écrit :

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

my guess instead of just speed and aoe stack it would be more builds viable, and may be even combo ones.

No thats not going to happen.

Combos take time, which means you take more dmg, which means you have to invest more into defense and you will get less of everything, may it be XP or loot or whatever else, than someone capable of clearing everything in 1-click and therefore doesnt need defenses, which means more can be invested into speed and dmg.


You can try to advertise inefficient builds as much as you like.
In the end this game is competitive in nature and therefore the most efficient builds will always win.

Speed and dmg is and always has been the most efficient approach.
Thats the ultimate reason why speedclear or zoomzoom dominates PoE1 - not because players are braindead or lazy or whatever else.

Other playstyles cant compete, period. Thats the cold truth and PoE2 wont get around this fact no matter what - unless the Devs are willing to remove the competitive nature of the game and I dont see any indicator for that at all.

Thats the point! If the build you have to engage more in combat with wins the race would be a huuge win for the game!

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Orbaal#0435 a écrit :

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

my guess instead of just speed and aoe stack it would be more builds viable, and may be even combo ones.

No thats not going to happen.

Combos take time, which means you take more dmg, which means you have to invest more into defense and you will get less of everything, may it be XP or loot or whatever else, than someone capable of clearing everything in 1-click and therefore doesnt need defenses, which means more can be invested into speed and dmg.


You can try to advertise inefficient builds as much as you like.
In the end this game is competitive in nature and therefore the most efficient builds will always win.

Speed and dmg is and always has been the most efficient approach.
Thats the ultimate reason why speedclear or zoomzoom dominates PoE1 - not because players are braindead or lazy or whatever else.

Other playstyles cant compete, period. Thats the cold truth and PoE2 wont get around this fact no matter what - unless the Devs are willing to remove the competitive nature of the game and I dont see any indicator for that at all.

So what you're saying is gut all the 1 button builds. Great I agree, welcome aboard.

Me personally I really dislike the amount of chain and + additional projectile skills. Ranged is strong enough as is without having the ability to turns single target ranged skills into aoes.
Also I think shock being a generic damage amplification for every and all damage is ridiculously broken and should be changed.

The one thing i HATE about this game IS COMBOS.


Every time i died was because i was focusing too much to combo a boss to death before he was doing anything. I regretted i didn't "stop attacking" to actually see what the boss was doing at that particular moment.

This is not "meaningful combat".


In Poe1 we had 1 button builds where all the rest of our buttons were just mobility skills and we could clearly see at all times what the boss was doing and we weren't stuck in deep combos to avoid one shots.

What happened to the combat they promised for Poe2? I clearly remember Jonnathan saying before Poe2 release how they want this game to be focused on player reaction and combat to not have cooldowns and stuff.

But the combat itself is nothing but a mix of combo skills that is always bottlenecked by cooldowns, detonation times, skills with +1-3 seconds added to their attack time, everything to make the combat as clunky as possible to not let you focus on the boss mechanics or anything else.

COMBOS are specifically designed to make your in game attack speed clunky by shifting it to manual skill rotations each with it's own clunky delay.

Going from Poe1 to Poe2 feels like going from automatic stick shift to manual stick shift where the manual stick shift doesn't work if you switch it 1 ms sooner or later then the exact precise moment which also varies according to your skill speed buffs.

COMBOS made this game super CLUNKY and UNFUN and i can't focus on any boss mechanics other then the combos themselves which always get me killed.

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

So what you're saying is gut all the 1 button builds. Great I agree, welcome aboard.

No thats merely what you want to hear, not what I said.


If GGG enforces any sort of playstyle by "gutting" anything, they will lose.
What they can do instead is rewarding playstyles and thus make them more appealing or more competitive.

Enforcing combo-playstyles by the means of cooldowns or generator/spender designs will blow up in their faces. This isnt how it works.

You win people over with honey, not with vinegar.
Which is why the majority of the suggestions is this and other threads like this are laughable at best, self defeating at worst.

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Orbaal#0435 a écrit :

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

So what you're saying is gut all the 1 button builds. Great I agree, welcome aboard.

No thats merely what you want to hear, not what I said.


If GGG enforces any sort of playstyle by "gutting" anything, they will lose.
What they can do instead is rewarding playstyles and thus make them more appealing or more competitive.

Enforcing combo-playstyles by the means of cooldowns or generator/spender designs will blow up in their faces. This isnt how it works.

You win people over with honey, not with vinegar.
Which is why the majority of the suggestions is this and other threads like this are laughable at best, self defeating at worst.

No that is me making fun of your comment.

You people act as if using 1 skill instead of 6 is peak gameplay, as if oversimplyfing the game into cookie clicker is actually fun. That is straight up insane.

We use combos all throughout the campaign and then as we reach endgame we lose skill compabilities and combos, instead of getting more of them. This is just such a freaking upside down bs design. Endgame should enhance build-crafting, not narrow it down and limit it.

Also we definietly need more cooldowns in the game, and I am not talking these 2 second ones which are just annoying, but 30 second cooldowns for abilities that actually do something meaningful, like time stop. Now that is an awesome ability.

I 100% agree that we don't need more generator/ spender type moves, because those are horrible, resource juggling is never fun. What we need is interactive skills that work off of each other and for late game scaling to not ruin the awesome gameplay we have in the campaign.

3 idiots trying to convince the world how "engaging combat" should be the next big thing in arpg, yet none have any idea what this combat should look like. Since POE is not the game for you feel free to pack your shit and find a "souls like fiesta" that satisfy your needs. This is POE game, poe1 or 2, doesn;t matter. We love loot, we love to be efficient and we love to craft. Slowing down the game for people like you who literally spend days complaining on a forum instead of playing is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. I would say we need haste aura back so we can go even faster, clear a map in 2 minutes and move to the next one. This is the POE I want. Also don;t forget that YOU are the tourists here, not the people who've been playing poe for over a decade.

Now stop polluting the forum with your rot and find something else to play.

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

No that is me making fun of your comment.

I know. I just dont care and refuse to get baited.

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

You people act as if using 1 skill instead of 6 is peak gameplay, as if oversimplyfing the game into cookie clicker is actually fun. That is straight up insane.

I never said that.

What I said that this was the most efficient way to play and it is.
Like it or not.

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

Also we definietly need more cooldowns in the game, and I am not talking these 2 second ones which are just annoying, but 30 second cooldowns for abilities that actually do something meaningful, like time stop.

They already exist and barely anyone gives a fuck.

That right there should tell you how popular this stuff is

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SPGD#3221 a écrit :

Now stop polluting the forum with your rot and find something else to play.

Take your own advice.

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Nikuksis#6962 a écrit :

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Orbaal#0435 a écrit :

Combos take time, which means you take more dmg, which means you have to invest more into defense and you will get less of everything, may it be XP or loot or whatever else, than someone capable of clearing everything in 1-click and therefore doesnt need defenses, which means more can be invested into speed and dmg.

I might be wrong, but combos could be pretty quick, i mean preparation skill (prime stun, freeze, ignite, armor break) then finalizing skill.
Regarding speed - if you spend more time killing than walking, probably it would be more effective to invest into dmg , not speed. And as of defenses, while you cant oneshot everything in the proximity you would need at least basic defenses.
So until you're really godlike geared to oneshot everything on "players max" you'd need balanced damage/speed/defense, which is a healthy gameplay from my point of view.

Devil may cry has some of the fastest combos I've ever seen. You are damn near untouchable BUT you need to dodge properly, use the right skills at the right time, position properly, etc. And then there's even more subtle aspects to the combat that I love. I think that's something that can make combat feel engaging. Is subtle things like little tricks and secrets to movement that you discover as you just play a bunch. Like in tekken, yoshimitsu has a jump kick. But if you time the move at just the right frame in the air, his foot just spazzes out and it looks like a totally different move. I use this technique all the time and I have never seen another yoshi player do this. That's engaging. And it feels good to have my own style or special setup in moment to moment gameplay. Devil may cry has animation and jump cancelling. It's in a lot of games and adds to the depth of combat. I don't play a lot of two dimensional games like path of exile but those little things tend to make moment to moment play more engaging. Just depth to attacks. And combos can be done on the move if they provide a SET SET SET. AND I REPEAT. SET. Amount of movement speed that matches the difficulty and enemy density in the game. And then the way you combine those moves and maneuver is what grants you more survivability and killing potential. And of course you need your gear stats and stuff. But you can definitely have both without being ridiculously OP to the point where the gameplay is boring and only getting loot is enjoyable or being so slow that rate of progression is just bad. I also think that what the game progresses you towards is just open ended and bad design for endgame. It's pretty much the same premise as vampire survivors but even vampire survivors has it's limits where it's just like "30 minutes! That's it!" And you can only get numbers to a certain point in vampire survivors and that makes it feel like an accomplishment. This game has no limits so it's just kinda like everything isn't fast enough. Yall kinda keep repeating that. "Everything isn't fast enough". It's like, maybe yall should'NT be asking for things to be faster. Just for the speed to matter. Like for what yall invest in to matter.

Cause if you think about what yall are asking for and what the devs keep giving yall, it pretty much invalidates everything you make at every turn. Yall make powerful stuff and then ask for more powerful stuff to fight and more loot and so they give you more powerful enemies and what you ask for and all of a sudden what yall had before just doesn't work. It's kinda haphazard and a never ending loop. Wouldn't be okay to just acknowledge at some point finally "That works. Lets try something else?"

Are yall okay with that in path of exile? Having options to choose what type of gameplay is validating to each person is okay or no?

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HTlYr6APGC#5834 a écrit :

No that is me making fun of your comment.

You people act as if using 1 skill instead of 6 is peak game play, as if over simplifying the game into cookie clicker is actually fun. That is straight up insane.

We use combos all throughout the campaign and then as we reach endgame we lose skill compatibilities and combos, instead of getting more of them. This is just such a freaking upside down bs design. Endgame should enhance build-crafting, not narrow it down and limit it.

Also we definitely need more cooldowns in the game, and I am not talking these 2 second ones which are just annoying, but 30 second cooldowns for abilities that actually do something meaningful, like time stop. Now that is an awesome ability.

I 100% agree that we don't need more generator/ spender type moves, because those are horrible, resource juggling is never fun. What we need is interactive skills that work off of each other and for late game scaling to not ruin the awesome game play we have in the campaign.

When you say We used combos in campaign - not 100% true, but let's say it is for my argument sake. That's easily justifiable as the campaign being much slower than end game, and also, you have 0 penalties for dying aside, you know, you die and can try again. How can the late game - t15 juiced maps - allow you to perform combos when you die all the time and don't know how and why you died? On bossing, sure, we have time for combos, and some builds do them to a degree, but for everything else, which is 99% of the current game play, you have almost no time for combos. The game is not designed for that, at least currently. People want engaging combat, even GGG as it's their vision, but you have way too much dependencies on Atlas and gear for that. I'm seriously not seeing how they will implement this on the game with all these dependencies and with how the game is designed, but then again, I'm not a game developer, so who knows XD