What's the point of spending 100s hrs building your character to eventually ditch it?!

"

Averros#5419 a écrit :

Which would you prefer, to play in order to achieve best build then delete, or play to achieve the best champion in the game that no one could beat?

Hey guess what? These are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES lol.

Like.....not even close to the same. From basically any angle.

It is totally unfair to present this question, in much the same way you are criticizing this game for "failing as an arpg".


It is quite clear you don't really know what a loot-based arpg even is. Have you realized that there actually WAS PVP in PoE......but it essentially doesn't exist and has NEVER existed? Across the entire history and genre, it has NEVER worked in an arpg setting successfully. Because that ISN'T the game. You are never creating a "champion that no one could beat".

"Best champion in the game that no one could beat" is a statement for PVP......NEVER EVER EVER for a PVE game. Ever. Period. I don't know how much more I can say that. It is not a statement any person who has ever played any game similar to Diablo would EVER make.

This MIGHT be a statement one might make if they were an avid MMORPG player I guess? I haven't played any mmorpgs in my life, but it sounds about right. But certainly not an arpg. And DEFINITELY not a PVE arpg.



But to answer your unfair question for THE ENTIRE PLAYERBASE (except perhaps you): achieve the best build I can at the time, based on my choices....then delete and build another. I try my very best NOT to speak for everyone when I can help it.....but in this particular unique instance I can pretty safely say that I speak for everyone (or.....99.99999%).

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cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

"Best champion in the game that no one could beat" is a statement for PVP......NEVER EVER EVER for a PVE game. Ever. Period. I don't know how much more I can say that. It is not a statement any person who has ever played any game similar to Diablo would EVER make.

Your thinking is limited and capped to seasons, thus limiting the game.

No, I am not calling for mmorpg, I never played mmorpg either. Nor I am asking for the old unbalanced PVP.

Here is a scenario:
- you finished a season, made amazing build.
- Take that champ to "champions hall", instead of a photo shoot then deleting it.
- In that realm there are games and challenges, which also have drops.
- These challenges involve other players and have a ladder system.
- It could be PVE, it could be BALANCED PVP, it could be PVPVE.
E.g. Randomly generated Defense game, Invasion Game, last standing game, team vs team vs environment, team vs team in a dungeon race and who finishes first when, team vs team in a last standing and who survive fight the survivors of the other team (could add twist by dropping buffs and power ups during the match).

- Here, your build is truly tested and compared to others, not by DMG numbers or character stats alone, but by actually COMPETING with others. Your Champ might be #1 in GameX and actually be the best build of that game. Other player might be #1 in GameY and his build proven to be great too.

- ONCE AGAIN: seasons/leagues will continues normally without any change. Builds get nerfed or puffed naturally, you continue to tweak your champ accordingly, and will need to actually play new seasons to make other builds and classes, to then enjoy it in the Champion Realm if you like.

- There are plenty of ideas without CHANGING ANYTHING IN THE GAME GENRE!
e.g. D4 has hordes, did it change the game? it is open world, did it change the game and make it not ARPG? NO.

That is fun, ARPG, and check all boxes

With every character I made, I learned new things about how this game works.
I enjoy learning and creating new builds that emerge from what I learned.

"

Averros#5419 a écrit :

Here is a scenario:
- you finished a season, made amazing build.
- Take that champ to "champions hall", instead of a photo shoot then deleting it.
- In that realm there are games and challenges, which also have drops.
- These challenges involve other players and have a ladder system.
- It could be PVE, it could be BALANCED PVP, it could be PVPVE.
E.g. Randomly generated Defense game, Invasion Game, last standing game, team vs team vs environment, team vs team in a dungeon race and who finishes first when, team vs team in a last standing and who survive fight the survivors of the other team (could add twist by dropping buffs and power ups during the match).

- Here, your build is truly tested and compared to others, not by DMG numbers or character stats alone, but by actually COMPETING with others. Your Champ might be #1 in GameX and actually be the best build of that game. Other player might be #1 in GameY and his build proven to be great too.

- ONCE AGAIN: seasons/leagues will continues normally without any change. Builds get nerfed or puffed naturally, you continue to tweak your champ accordingly, and will need to actually play new seasons to make other builds and classes, to then enjoy it in the Champion Realm if you like.

- There are plenty of ideas without CHANGING ANYTHING IN THE GAME GENRE!
e.g. D4 has hordes, did it change the game? it is open world, did it change the game and make it not ARPG? NO.

That is fun, ARPG, and check all boxes

Wrong on every single count......no one would find any of that enjoyable.....and dare I say not even you lol. And nearly every one of those ideas you have heavily leans on many of the aspects that made PVP fail. And you don't even seem to realize it.

The things you WANT from the game exist, in the form of regular events and challenges and different modes you can play. There are leaderboards if you want to "challenge" other players with your "skills". But no one.....NO ONE.....is going to sit there and play a FINISHED CHARACTER for hours on end in this game or any arpg. It won't happen. It's NEVER happened.

You accuse me of having a narrow view, but I disagree. Your view is WAY MORE NARROW to the point of excluding every single aspect that makes an arpg an arpg in favor of ONE THING: playing one character versus building many. Even the IDEA you have is more narrow in scope than the game you are currently playing. Than the entire genre you are currently sitting in.



Hell....even the "forever" players that DO focus on basically one build (such a pohx and the like).....don't sit on a "completed" build. They even restart just to build the SAME BUILD over again. And they are some of the most veteran of veterans you can possibly find. Likely tens of thousands of hours more than you in this game.
Not saying you have to be like them......but I am saying your views on what is needed, what would be enjoyable, and what "fits" is quite exceptionally misguided.


And I hate to (love to) be that guy that points at the "gacha" moment: you just pointed to D4 design as something that should be adopted or is superior to PoE. As an arpg. I don't even need to qualify this with an explanation, it kind of speaks for itself. But I will: you chose one of the biggest aspects of D4 that makes it......NOT an arpg, but a wannabe MMORPG. That was actually brilliant. And it isn't even a GOOD example of the MMORPG-style design that it exemplifies!

None of this is saying you shouldn't play what you like: do that. But lets be absolutely REAL about the criticisms and ideas being levied about here.

"

cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

..excluding every single aspect that makes an arpg an arpg in favor of ONE THING: playing one character versus building many.

It seems you don't even read. apparently, you truly are tunnel visioned and close minded. I said: No One Will Touch Seasons. I said it 1000 times already!

READ AGAIN:

"

Averros#5419 a écrit :

- ONCE AGAIN: seasons/leagues will continues normally without any change. Builds get nerfed or puffed naturally, you continue to tweak your champ accordingly, and will need to actually play new seasons to make other builds and classes, to then enjoy it in the Champion Realm if you like.

You guys just block every idea like its a cult or religion!!
Relax dude, your season will continue to remain THE SAME.EXACTLY THE SAME.

Again: THE SEASONS WILL NOT BE CHANGED, NOR HAVE I ASKED TO CHANGE IT.
If any of season cult repeat that argument again, I am not going to engage. Its becoming ridiculous.

"

Averros#5419 a écrit :

The depressing part about this game, is the fact that you will eventually ditch your character for a new league after spending 100s of hours tuning and tweaking your build for perfection

What's even worse is doing that and then they change how the whole endgame works A MONTH LATER and your build went from feeling really good to really bad.

"

Averros#5419 a écrit :

It seems you don't even read. apparently, you truly are tunnel visioned and close minded. I said: No One Will Touch Seasons. I said it 1000 times already!

You have had 8 pages of people answering this line already: STANDARD EXISTS.

You have also had 8 pages of people telling you how spending time on these pointless "ideas" take away from time spent on actual ideas.

You have chosen to ignore much, if not all, of these criticisms.


You can say that line as many times as you want......it doesn't change how out of place it is, or how many times it has already been responded to. Nor does it change the fact that the only person that seems to continuously bring that up as a counterargument......is you.

You seem to conflate "replayability" with league play. Because you do not understand the "point" of either. They are not mutually exclusive. Replayability is a pillar of ALL arpgs in existence. It is part of the design of every single aspect of the game. LEAGUES only exist to reset the economy. That's it.

This is also something that has been said to you a few times in the last 8 pages.

You appear to have also completely misunderstood the reason why I brought up PVP. Developing the game in YOUR ideas works just as antithetically to the reason why people play this type of game, and its core construction. It would fail, it would be pointless, it wouldn't attract or retain any significant amount of players...and it would end up as "graveyard"-ed as PVP has ended up in PoE.

D3 and D4 BOTH have received intense backlash from the arpg community for destroying many of these systems, in favor of incredibly simple or outright anti-arpg design choices. They remain popular (or at least D4 does) BECAUSE its an incredibly easy game by comparison to any other, it's still relatively "new", AND because the MMO crowd is enormous. But arpg fans overall? They have mostly moved on from Diablo which used to be king.



It has NOTHING to do with "blocking ideas": you are simply refusing to entertain any criticisms of your ideas and write off entire pages of information WHY your ideas won't or don't work in this environment as "oh they are just blocking for the sake of blocking". This thread is about YOUR points, YOUR criticisms of the game, and YOUR specific ideas. Not "ideas" in general.

And when you START your thread of "game ideas" with as much animosity as you seem to have on a CORE ASPECT of the game you are playing......there's not much else to work with other than to just come at it from every possible angle until it clicks.



I could make up a similar scenario, not even a strawman:
Say you were playing a game designed around being a sniper. All systems were designed with long range gun play as the focus.
Now you come along and make a complaint, in THAT GAME, saying you want to use swords or shotguns or pistols, and that close-range weapons should receive content and focus. With the caption: "why do we always need to be aiming and far away from enemies?"
Your counterargument being that "your sniper rifles won't be going anywhere"
I mean.....okay? But these don't fit the entire design of the game. And what kind of person picks up a SNIPER game to play around with swords?
So yes.....expect to have that idea "blocked" by the players lol.

In fact, the above is probably a LESS extreme example of what is being presented in this thread since at least the "suggestion" of close range weaponry would still be within the same category of game.

"

NotMyHeckinBernarinos#3110 a écrit :

What's even worse is doing that and then they change how the whole endgame works A MONTH LATER and your build went from feeling really good to really bad.

You are playing a beta. You paid to be in the beta. This was explicitly spelled out before you purchased or started the beta.

It is completely standard. Expect extreme overhauls. Expect them regularly. Don't get attached. That's the difference between playing a BETA and playing a released game.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the game as a whole.

"

cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

Expect extreme overhauls. Expect them regularly. Don't get attached.

Same for the fully released version.


Id be surprised if PoE2 wouldnt follow the established buff/nerf cycles, which renders the entire idea of having one maxxed out build and playing that one forever impossible.

Sooner or later that build or mechanics it happens to rely on will take the nerfbat to the face and then you´ll be left with a max-lvl character in dire of need of full gear overhaul and thats the timesink anyways (if we are talking min/maxed gear that is).

Might as well start over at that point, its not that much of a difference.

"

yosheee89#3525 a écrit :

your character is moved to standard league and you are free to work on a forever character there

Yee but what's the point when item on trade costs 700 divinies.. amount normal people never farm.. unless they cut the chase and risk illegal activities to buy it from RMT.. on other hands farming omens, or other crafting currency takes ages too.

what needs to be changed asap is this broken poe1 economy..