No...the majority of players do not hate the game

"

dissonance90#3107 a écrit :

Game in CURRENT state is BAD. And if you're enjoying this game in CURRENT state just means that your "accepted quality level" is very low. That's it.

But I could say absolutely the same about LE or POE 1 — if you are enjoying playing those games, which are basically just casino simulators in the RPG style, your "accepted quality level" is really low. Even in the current state, POE 2 has more interesting combat than any classic ARPG. The problem is that POE 2 is very bad as a casino simulator — things like looting, zooming, getting dopamine from lucky roll are not match to those games with the classic casino gameplay.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

"

dissonance90#3107 a écrit :

Trying to act that "everything is fine, you all just haters" should be equal to trolling these days. Moreover, exactly those glazers are killing the game in the strategic connotation, not the other who don't like the game and SPEAKING about it.
There are NO "vocal minority/haters/hatetrolls" whatever. Game in CURRENT state is BAD. And if you're enjoying this game in CURRENT state just means that your "accepted quality level" is very low. That's it.

Yeah... toxic positivity is a thing and equally harmful.

And it's not really helpful when ppl present things like "numbers" wrong, only to push a narrative, no matter the "side".

I also get the feeling that a lot of this blind positivity and downright invalidation of criticism comes from ppl that not only do not play classic ARPGs but also have a completely false understanding of "blasting" and "zoom-zoom" playstyle in general. First of all, most games (to my knowledge PoE1 is one of them but I didnt play it) do not give out this power for free right out the gate (exception is D3 which was bad for that and other reasons). Being able to have the power to zoom is mostly the result of dozens if not hundreds of hours putting into a build (like in D2 or in PoE2 0.1) and is the ultimate end reward. At the beginning and for many many many hours, the games are incredibly challenging and nothing is easy or zoom zoom boom pick up loot. Its the state when you finished your character progression and wear the BiS gear at the end of a long heroic journey. And its no problem if that takes a bit longer in PoE2 than say in D2 or PoE1 or even in PoE2 0.1. The problem arises however when that is not achievable at all (which is the case for almost all builds in 0.2!) because it begs the question why you are even farming if there is no powerups in sight that significantly improve your clear speed? That invalidates farming and kills any repeatable endgame content. You could only do this in a game with a one time playthrough where the focus lies on the campaign and no further powerups need to exist, hence 24/7 challenge of every mob is justified.

The second thing is, zoom gameplay does not need to be trivial or easy at all. Yes there is cases where this has been the case in the past (I mainly bring up D3 again) but there is also counterexamples of when you can zoom but you cant completely turn off your brain and never get killed because of it. D2 again serves as a very good example here, most Sorceress builds are very fragile and getting one shot from two screens away by 8 Burning Souls or getting rushed, intercepted during teleport, stunchained and killed by Stygian Dolls is not uncommon at all. Even though these builds can move with the speed of light, you need very good knowledge of the game, mechanics and reactions to overcome certain difficult situations. My point is, zoom gameplay does not equate to "everything is trivial now" necessarily. You can absolutely design a game in a way that its still challenging but just not ever and always with every single white pack or again we start to invalidate the loot and powerups.

And even still, there is content that you cannot or should not be able to one shot: It was Hellfire/Uber Diablo in D2 and to my knowledge theres Uber Bosses in PoE1 as well. This should also apply to pinnacle Bosses in PoE2 of course. You should have to deal with their mechanics and learn to dodge them properly. This difference in the pacing between maps and pinnacles would further amplify the epic feeling of a pinnacle fight. I would be hyped about a better visual indication of Arbiters Firewind ability on that note...but overall I enjoy the fight actually.

But yeah Idk, claiming the game is fine and all the uproar of tens of thousands of reviews and all creators and their audiences as well as veterans abandoning the game is just a whiny "minority", while at the same time condemning any possibility of zoom gameplay and not even being able to imagine that it can be (and has been!) implemented in a way thats entertaining as well as motivating long term in the past and can still yield a nice challenge is...a bit of a peculiar stance to take.

"

LW187#4876 a écrit :

At the beginning and for many many many hours, the games are incredibly challenging and nothing is easy or zoom zoom boom pick up loot.

Lol, which games? :) LE campaign is incredibly challenging? in POE 1 campaign nothing is easy?

"

JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 a écrit :

"

EllyParis#5023 a écrit :

"

JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 a écrit :

got some sources for that claim or did you just make up a situation in your head and present it as factual?

Seriously? There is no way you actually can't figure out where the player information came from...if you can't figure that out, I don't know what to tell you.

What you are telling me is if POE2 has 180K players on the charts and POE1 has around 6K players on the charts and POE2 drops to 80K players and POE1 stays at 6K players. You don't believe that it is factual that the 100K players that stopped playing POE2, didn't go play POE1? Don't you think the that if 100K players went and played POE1, the POE1 player numbers on the charts would have gone up?

Are they there, but they are invisible? Maybe you think they are ninja's and not showing up on the steam player charts while they play a video game is how being a ninja works?

[Removed by Support]

ok so you are in fact just making shit up in your head and presenting it as fact.
thanks for making that even more clear than it was previously.

Ok, so you really do think that the player numbers on the POE1 steam charts not going up when POE2's player numbers go down still means the players leaving POE2 are going to POE1 and they are just invisible on the POE1 chart. And you actually think there are over 100K players playing POE1 on steam right now.

Wow, I really didn't think that was the case. I don't even know how it is possible for someone to think that. But if that is what you really think, I think it is best for me to just let you think that and just leave it.

"

EllyParis#5023 a écrit :

The majority of players in the ARPG genre have been playing POE2 since it was released. That is the only stat you need to know to see what the majority of players in the genre want.

If the majority wanted what POE1 offered, the majority would be playing POE1. If the majority wanted what D4 offered, the majority would be playing D4. If the majority wanted what LE offered the majority would be playing LE. For anyone who thinks LE has more players because of the steam chart. The steam chart shows all of LE's players, but POE2 has the GGG launcher and has more players than the steam chart shows.

Negative posts on the forums do not indicate what the majority want because every games forums look like this, even most played games in world. It is a shame that people use the feedback forum to complain and be ignored rather than give mature, reasonable feedback and be taken serious. Posting "the game isn't what I want it to be, I'm mad" is not feedback, it is just complaining and is not going to make anything better.

People don't even want to play POE1 when they stop playing POE2 because as POE2's players decline POE1's players do not increase. Players will play a good game regardless of if it has new content or not. There are lots of games that have a lot of players than haven't had new content in a while. If people will not play a game unless it has new content, that is a red flag.

If you are trying to say the state of POE2 is bad then you are saying the state of POE1 is even worse and no one should take a game in that direction because people won't even play POE1 in its current state after playing POE2.

You can run whatever narratives you want, but the numbers say what the reality is and the reality is that the majority of people playing ARPG's are playing POE2.

Truth. Well said

"

Suchka_777#4336 a écrit :

"

LW187#4876 a écrit :

At the beginning and for many many many hours, the games are incredibly challenging and nothing is easy or zoom zoom boom pick up loot.

Lol, which games? :) LE campaign is incredibly challenging? in POE 1 campaign nothing is easy?

Never mentioned LE with one word. Take D2 as a reference of a challenging campaign, especially for new players. Zooming exists but you have to grind your butt off to make it happen, even with trading.

There are currently 58K players on Steam and peak was 580K. There are 121K playing BANANA right now. Remind me again what percentage are farming bots? Competition v market share is a concept most gamers can't understand. There is no market for a game in this current state.

"

dreamstate42#3955 a écrit :

"

EllyParis#5023 a écrit :

"

JODYHiGHR0LLER#6171 a écrit :

got some sources for that claim or did you just make up a situation in your head and present it as factual?

Seriously? There is no way you actually can't figure out where the player information came from...if you can't figure that out, I don't know what to tell you.

What you are telling me is if POE2 has 180K players on the charts and POE1 has around 6K players on the charts and POE2 drops to 80K players and POE1 stays at 6K players. You don't believe that it is factual that the 100K players that stopped playing POE2, didn't go play POE1? Don't you think the that if 100K players went and played POE1, the POE1 player numbers on the charts would have gone up?

Are they there, but they are invisible? Maybe you think they are ninja's and not showing up on the steam player charts while they play a video game is how being a ninja works?

[Removed by Support]

Not the original poster, but I can tell you this: When you make claims, you need to provide sources. It's your responsibility, and yours alone, to back up any claim with evidence.

It has become way too accepted nowadays to just pretend proof is readily available if one just goes looking for it, but that's not how this works.

As Hitchens' Razor so succinctly puts it:
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

I literally posted the sources in the original post with links as well lol

"

Hyperspacing#5593 a écrit :

I literally posted the sources in the original post with links as well lol

Judging by your difficulties reading figures correctly, I don't think there is much to "lol" about (page 10, if you have memory problems).
Funny how you jump like that on someone who didn't talk to you, but ignored direct replies that addressed your own mistakes. Well, funny, or sad, I'll let you have your own opinion.

"

LW187#4876 a écrit :

"

Suchka_777#4336 a écrit :

"

LW187#4876 a écrit :

At the beginning and for many many many hours, the games are incredibly challenging and nothing is easy or zoom zoom boom pick up loot.

Lol, which games? :) LE campaign is incredibly challenging? in POE 1 campaign nothing is easy?

Never mentioned LE with one word. Take D2 as a reference of a challenging campaign, especially for new players. Zooming exists but you have to grind your butt off to make it happen, even with trading.

So ARPGs are not about zooming because 25 years it wasn't like that? When people are talking about ARPGs in general, they usually have in mind some modern games, obviously. When you are saying, that APRGs are incredible hard from the beginning, you don't specify that you don't mean any modern ARPG, which are never hard from the beginning.