Game needs a radical shift in direction

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

They are forced, they design drop rates around trading.
Just like how Blizzard designed drop rates around the RMAH in D3 and got FORCED to change it. Yet GGG gets away with things Blizzard only dreams of being able to get away with.

POE2 is the worst version of self found we've ever had.

That SSF is not in a great spot in PoE2 has many reasons and it will take a bit to be as good as PoE1 SSF, but that's not "their vision".

While they balance the game mainly around "Softcore Trade", many of them like SSF a lot and won't let it stay in this state. But these improvements will come with time over the "Early Access".

So if you are an SSF enjoyer - wait until it's fixed or play trade until it's done. In the end, SSF is a self-imposed challenge in PoE, not the default.

That's a lot of words to say "you are right, trading is forced if you want any semblance of character progression".

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

That SSF is not in a great spot in PoE2 has many reasons and it will take a bit to be as good as PoE1 SSF, but that's not "their vision".

While they balance the game mainly around "Softcore Trade", many of them like SSF a lot and won't let it stay in this state. But these improvements will come with time over the "Early Access".

So if you are an SSF enjoyer - wait until it's fixed or play trade until it's done. In the end, SSF is a self-imposed challenge in PoE, not the default.

That's a lot of words to say "you are right, trading is forced if you want any semblance of character progression".

Twisting my words? Ok.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

That SSF is not in a great spot in PoE2 has many reasons and it will take a bit to be as good as PoE1 SSF, but that's not "their vision".

While they balance the game mainly around "Softcore Trade", many of them like SSF a lot and won't let it stay in this state. But these improvements will come with time over the "Early Access".

So if you are an SSF enjoyer - wait until it's fixed or play trade until it's done. In the end, SSF is a self-imposed challenge in PoE, not the default.

That's a lot of words to say "you are right, trading is forced if you want any semblance of character progression".

Twisting my words? Ok.

Nope, but it's what you said, in a lot of words.

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

Nope, but it's what you said, in a lot of words.

Do you have a hard time understanding the difference between a result and something that is being forced?

I don't mind explaining it to you, but misrepresenting what I've said leads nowhere.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

Nope, but it's what you said, in a lot of words.

Do you have a hard time understanding the difference between a result and something that is being forced?

I don't mind explaining it to you, but misrepresenting what I've said leads nowhere.

I said:
The games drop rates are balanced around trading

You said:
They balance the game around softcore trade
SSF is bad right now because there's no systems in place to help SSF

What you said heavily implies that yes, drops are balanced around trading, and you need a ton of systems to prop up drop rates(via crafting or whateer) or else you'll never get gear at all as SSF.

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

"

ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

They are forced, they design drop rates around trading.
Just like how Blizzard designed drop rates around the RMAH in D3 and got FORCED to change it. Yet GGG gets away with things Blizzard only dreams of being able to get away with.

POE2 is the worst version of self found we've ever had.

That SSF is not in a great spot in PoE2 has many reasons and it will take a bit to be as good as PoE1 SSF, but that's not "their vision".

While they balance the game mainly around "Softcore Trade", many of them like SSF a lot and won't let it stay in this state. But these improvements will come with time over the "Early Access".

So if you are an SSF enjoyer - wait until it's fixed or play trade until it's done. In the end, SSF is a self-imposed challenge in PoE, not the default.

That's a lot of words to say "you are right, trading is forced if you want any semblance of character progression".

SSF isn't a solution to what many players want, at all. They're still forced to use crafting to progress. They're still forced to grind.

The game is designed around you using crafting, and trading, and hundreds of hours of time-sink to get anywhere in it.


This isn't even debatable, it is on full display the moment you start the game. And this is the very issue that tons of people have.

They do not want a game that has so much padding in it. PoE 2 is a chance to improve the game in this area.

People aren't asking for SSF. They're asking for the game to respect their time. They want enjoyment. Lots of people just want to play a version of PoE, where the emphasis is on FUN. Rather than trying to 'balance' the game in such a way that keeps players playing for 10,000 hours.

You can see examples of this, any time someone finds a build that's a bit too strong. All of the sudden, they change the build so that they can protect the economy!!

That's the game. The economy. And people get addicted to the gambling aspects of it. That's the playerbase.

I have to disagree for the most part, first of all PoE2 feels a lot less like you have to trade, currency drops a lot more and you end up crafting a lot more items than in PoE1, sure it's RNG but overall, there's plenty of currency to not have to trade at all. But if your goal is to complete your characters in a couple of week, zooming through the content...well sure, you'll need to trade for that.

As for the game itself, it's far from woke and far from bad, it's a very typical ARPG where grinding is part of the game and genre. The only complain I see a lot of is the 1 death which can challenge the fun of the game if you keep dying but that's about it.

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

Nope, but it's what you said, in a lot of words.

Do you have a hard time understanding the difference between a result and something that is being forced?

I don't mind explaining it to you, but misrepresenting what I've said leads nowhere.

I said:
The games drop rates are balanced around trading

You said:
They balance the game around softcore trade
SSF is bad right now because there's no systems in place to help SSF

What you said heavily implies that yes, drops are balanced around trading, and you need a ton of systems to prop up drop rates(via crafting or whateer) or else you'll never get gear at all as SSF.

The "balance around trade" is NOT equal to "SSF not viable or unbalanced".
That means in detail that T1 and T0 items, for example, have their rarity balanced the way that they are still rare and only affordable with higher time and/or currency investment.

Do you wanna know why SSF in PoE2 isn't great right now? Not because of "trade balance".
Because crafting is in a horrible spot.
The crafting in PoE2 is basically "find a base throw some ex or chaos at the item - done". Sure, technically omens exist, but they are not balanced the slightest so their rarity prevents ppl from actually doing stuff with them, with some exceptions.
Essences are the same. The small essences? Easy. But the greater essences are rare af and even with the "reforge essences" for the chance of a greater essence - it's not really viable.

So that covers PoE2. Compare that to PoE1...
- essence crafting is actually viable
- special modifiers from delve/breach/incursion exist
- veiling an item
- meta crafting is accessible
- fossil crafting
- tainted currency
- beast crafting
- eldritch orbs
- boss currency (Maven orb, awakened orbs)
- harvest crafting
- synthesis
and other stuff.

So it is incredibly hard atm in PoE2 to craft with the few tools given and these tools are not balanced.

Furthermore, there are way fewer mechanics to farm stuff, like league mechanics to get uniques or specific rares and currency.

Divination cards are not added to PoE2, the "Gamble vendors" (Expedition) function differently.

There are many things that hinder SSF atm, but these things are not directly tied to "trade" (most of them), they are generally bad - and yes, MAJOR problems - the game has in its current state.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Do you wanna know why SSF in PoE2 isn't great right now? Not because of "trade balance".
Because crafting is in a horrible spot.

The game doesn't NEED crafting. Crafting exists in PoE to fix the bad loot. The gambling aspect of orbs keeps players hooked.

What the game needs. Is better loot.

You are now recognizing how bad PoE is, without crafting. It was balanced around it, and the economy. It was balanced around the gambling aspect of it.


Fix the base game, aka make it a satisfying ARPG. Make crafting optional. Then you have a good game.


Have you ever played Diablo 2? Did you load up that game and think it was bad because you couldn't craft?

I sure didn't. The base game was solid. Items were interesting. It didn't need crafting and yet, it became one of the most popular ARPG's of all time. Even 20 years after it's release.

Would crafting improve it? Something like PoE's crafting? Maybe. But it wasn't necessary to make the game fun and enjoyable. You could play entirely without it. Crafting being the sole focus of a game is a design choice. Players are telling you, it's not fun. It robs the game of the feeling of good loot drops. Especially when 99% of the items that drop, are complete garbage or crafting bases.

ARPG's are about loot explosions, the fun of finding an upgrade in a pile of colourful stuff, after killing 200 enemies.

When was the last time you played an ARPG just for the fun of exploding stuff and sifting through the loot you got?

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Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

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JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Do you wanna know why SSF in PoE2 isn't great right now? Not because of "trade balance".
Because crafting is in a horrible spot.

The game doesn't NEED crafting. Crafting exists in PoE to fix the bad loot. The gambling aspect of orbs keeps players hooked.

What the game needs. Is better loot.

Interesting. So you think one of THE major parts of PoE is not needed?
Because what? You think it's "gambling" because you don't know how to craft?
And no, that's not an assumption, I've seen your characters.

Imagine thinking "crafting is gambling" while PoE2 literally proves the opposite and why so many ppl are mad about it because it's mostly gambling now.

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Fix the base game, aka make it a satisfying ARPG. Make crafting optional. Then you have a good game.

Ok. How? You know, you always end up with "make it better" but you never ever say how they could make it better. And no, "improve loot" is not HOW, it's WHAT.
I guess you've read the post where I talked about the definition of "constructive feedback"?

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Have you ever played Diablo 2? Did you load up that game and think it was bad because you couldn't craft?

Runes don't exist? My bad.

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When was the last time you played an ARPG just for the fun of exploding stuff and sifting through the loot you got?

The last time I played PoE. Weird thing to ask.