Game needs a radical shift in direction

"

voodoochile78#9787 a écrit :

OP got swarmed by two trolls within three posts. Sorry dude, these forums are awful.

Yes, they are.

Without realizing it, they gave themselves up as a perfect example as to what this game doesn't need.

And GGG reinforces this with their design decisions, and even decisions on the forums here. Whole reason for my post.

Lost sight of what matters. Fun, player enjoyment.

"

Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

I never said I didn't want a grindy game. I have consistently said that I want a game to respect my time. There is nothing wrong with grinding. But grinding for the sake of padding game-time is a blatantly awful experience for people.

Make it enjoyable. Make it fun. Don't just make it 'long' by removing 5 hours of my game progression due to a death. Don't force me to grind by arbitrarily reducing Item drops, to drive people to the economy to compensate.

Again, you always say, "Make it fun" or "Make it enjoyable", without ever stating HOW. Is it possible to give an example?

For you a long grind is not enjoyable - for others it is.
And where do you lose 5 hours of your progression on death? If you die on level 99 in PoE1 it does not take you 5 hours to get the 10% exp back and in PoE2 things only take so long because it's not balanced, methods are missing etc. and something you haven't reached either.

"

Most stop around Act 5, because the game starts getting tedious. And lots of players are just looking for a good game to relax to, and explode enemies in. And PoE is great at that. Till you're forced to interact with the economy, and you start losing progression on deaths. And it is entirely overly-complex for a new player, and immediately turns most people off.

Nobody is forced to use the economy and the complexity has already improved for new players in PoE2.
You know, if you carefully read the forum and Reddit - you can see that many brand new players love the game, but the ones that voice criticism like you are ppl who played a bit PoE1 - didn't make it far and now complain even in PoE2.

aboslutely bored out by poe2 not even watching streamers / youtube of poe2 content. time for new sh=t.

I agree with you OP, and I appreciate the way you articulated what a lot of us feel regarding the state of POE2 and its current direction.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

"

Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

I never said I didn't want a grindy game. I have consistently said that I want a game to respect my time. There is nothing wrong with grinding. But grinding for the sake of padding game-time is a blatantly awful experience for people.

Make it enjoyable. Make it fun. Don't just make it 'long' by removing 5 hours of my game progression due to a death. Don't force me to grind by arbitrarily reducing Item drops, to drive people to the economy to compensate.

Again, you always say, "Make it fun" or "Make it enjoyable", without ever stating HOW. Is it possible to give an example?

For you a long grind is not enjoyable - for others it is.
And where do you lose 5 hours of your progression on death? If you die on level 99 in PoE1 it does not take you 5 hours to get the 10% exp back and in PoE2 things only take so long because it's not balanced, methods are missing etc. and something you haven't reached either.

"

Most stop around Act 5, because the game starts getting tedious. And lots of players are just looking for a good game to relax to, and explode enemies in. And PoE is great at that. Till you're forced to interact with the economy, and you start losing progression on deaths. And it is entirely overly-complex for a new player, and immediately turns most people off.

Nobody is forced to use the economy and the complexity has already improved for new players in PoE2.
You know, if you carefully read the forum and Reddit - you can see that many brand new players love the game, but the ones that voice criticism like you are ppl who played a bit PoE1 - didn't make it far and now complain even in PoE2.

Yes OP does not give exact changes that should be made, but you are missing the point. The point is that their philosophy is out of touch with the whole public they have reach for early access, and a lot of these people want a different game (when compared to POE1 or other grindy time-sink games), and thus a very different game design philosophy.

It is not necessary to give the devs (if they read it) an instruction manual of how to improve the game to give constructive criticism.
You coming back to this argument every single time proves that you are not here to understand the point made in this post, you are just here to fight it and by doing so you selfishly pushing other players away from "your" game.

This post shows that there is a lot of resistance to significant change within the community, like POE2 is their baby, and people wanting it to change are dangerous. This behavior is clearly irrational.


This post is good feedback, a feedback of how some of us players feel about the game, what we like, what we don't like, and what direction we wish for the game. Just deal with it.

"

Apoplexie#7568 a écrit :

I agree with you OP, and I appreciate the way you articulated what a lot of us feel regarding the state of POE2 and its current direction.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

"

Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

I never said I didn't want a grindy game. I have consistently said that I want a game to respect my time. There is nothing wrong with grinding. But grinding for the sake of padding game-time is a blatantly awful experience for people.

Make it enjoyable. Make it fun. Don't just make it 'long' by removing 5 hours of my game progression due to a death. Don't force me to grind by arbitrarily reducing Item drops, to drive people to the economy to compensate.

Again, you always say, "Make it fun" or "Make it enjoyable", without ever stating HOW. Is it possible to give an example?

For you a long grind is not enjoyable - for others it is.
And where do you lose 5 hours of your progression on death? If you die on level 99 in PoE1 it does not take you 5 hours to get the 10% exp back and in PoE2 things only take so long because it's not balanced, methods are missing etc. and something you haven't reached either.

"

Most stop around Act 5, because the game starts getting tedious. And lots of players are just looking for a good game to relax to, and explode enemies in. And PoE is great at that. Till you're forced to interact with the economy, and you start losing progression on deaths. And it is entirely overly-complex for a new player, and immediately turns most people off.

Nobody is forced to use the economy and the complexity has already improved for new players in PoE2.
You know, if you carefully read the forum and Reddit - you can see that many brand new players love the game, but the ones that voice criticism like you are ppl who played a bit PoE1 - didn't make it far and now complain even in PoE2.

Yes OP does not give exact changes that should be made, but you are missing the point. The point is that their philosophy is out of touch with the whole public they have reach for early access, and a lot of these people want a different game (when compared to POE1 or other grindy time-sink games), and thus a very different game design philosophy.

It is not necessary to give the devs (if they read it) an instruction manual of how to improve the game to give constructive criticism.
You coming back to this argument every single time proves that you are not here to understand the point made in this post, you are just here to fight it and by doing so you selfishly pushing other players away from "your" game.

This post shows that there is a lot of resistance to significant change within the community, like POE2 is their baby, and people wanting it to change are dangerous. This behavior is clearly irrational.


This post is good feedback, a feedback of how some of us players feel about the game, what we like, what we don't like, and what direction we wish for the game. Just deal with it.

I have posted dozens of comments on ways to improve the game. He's just here to find fault with things he doesn't agree with anyway he can to discredit them.

One of the first ways GGG could improve this game, is to remove people like him from the forums. Can't share feedback without someone like him coming in and writing 3 paragraphs about how wrong it is.

"

Apoplexie#7568 a écrit :

Yes OP does not give exact changes that should be made, but you are missing the point. The point is that their philosophy is out of touch with the whole public they have reach for early access, and a lot of these people want a different game (when compared to POE1 or other grindy time-sink games), and thus a very different game design philosophy.

It is not necessary to give the devs (if they read it) an instruction manual of how to improve the game to give constructive criticism.
You coming back to this argument every single time proves that you are not here to understand the point made in this post, you are just here to fight it and by doing so you selfishly pushing other players away from "your" game.

This post shows that there is a lot of resistance to significant change within the community, like POE2 is their baby, and people wanting it to change are dangerous. This behavior is clearly irrational.


This post is good feedback, a feedback of how some of us players feel about the game, what we like, what we don't like, and what direction we wish for the game. Just deal with it.

Wdym? Because PoE2 reached new ppl so GGG has to follow their demands!?
THIS is literally a toxic mindset and not the other way around.

If you don't align with the design philosophies of a game - don't play it.
"Path of Exile" is how it is for a reason, it's the game GGG wants to make and it follows a specific "vision".
Imagine trying "Baldur's Gate 3" and demanding to change the "turn-based" into "action combat" because you and some new players who discovered "Larian" don't like "turn-based".

"

and a lot of these people want a different game (when compared to POE1 or other grindy time-sink games)

If you want to play a different game - play a different game.

"

It is not necessary to give the devs (if they read it) an instruction manual of how to improve the game to give constructive criticism.

No, it's not "constructive criticism", literally. It's just general advice and repeating it basically everywhere he can is not constructive.
You know, there are definitions to things.

Constructive criticism is feedback that provides specific, actionable suggestions. Rather than providing general advice, constructive criticism gives specific recommendations on how to make positive improvements. Constructive criticism is clear, to the point and easy to put into action.

"

You coming back to this argument every single time proves that you are not here to understand the point made in this post, you are just here to fight it and by doing so you selfishly pushing other players away from "your" game.

And you argue while not understanding what constructive criticism is, that you cannot invade any space and demand it to change to your liking, that you could play a different game if you want a different game, while you push YOUR selfishness onto GGGs game.
It's not mine, it's not yours - it's their game, period.

"

This post is good feedback, a feedback of how some of us players feel about the game, what we like, what we don't like, and what direction we wish for the game. Just deal with it.

If the game does not change to your personal liking - Just deal with it.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Again, you always say, "Make it fun" or "Make it enjoyable", without ever stating HOW. Is it possible to give an example?

Well, for one. I have given tons of feedback. All over the forums. Why do I have to keep repeating it, just to appease you? Seems pretty demanding.

One way they could improve this game, is to put people like you on suspension from the forums. When people give feedback, you're quick to come in and write paragraphs of contrarian text, and try to find any faults you can of the feedback, to discredit it.

Seems like that would be drastically detrimental to the game, when the community is bullying people that give feedback, no? Will you stop though? Or are you just going to write another response about how wrong everyone else is? You've been in multiple threads, responding to me in the exact same way, no matter what the subject matter is. Instant disagreement, and a forceful attempt at proving me wrong.

Come on man.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

For you a long grind is not enjoyable - for others it is.
And where do you lose 5 hours of your progression on death? If you die on level 99 in PoE1 it does not take you 5 hours to get the 10% exp back and in PoE2 things only take so long because it's not balanced, methods are missing etc. and something you haven't reached either.

Still missing the point that the game you're defending, exists and is unchanged. PoE 1.

PoE 2 is a different game, and it doesn't need to copy paste all the mechanics from PoE 1. The game doesn't need XP loss on death.

Embrace the fact that this is an EARLY ACCESS, and as such is subject to change and feedback. A huge chunk of the community has said that they would enjoy the game better without XP loss on death. Stop arguing with it, stop fighting it, stop getting upset with people when they say it. Stop calling others BAD because they don't want it.

Try to think of alternative ways a game could CHALLENGE a player, without removing 5 hours of xp loss on a death.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

Nobody is forced to use the economy and the complexity has already improved for new players in PoE2.

I know I'm not forced to play with it. That's why I quit. Many others do the exact same thing.

That's the point. Players are telling you that they would play the game more if it was removed, or if there was alternatives, or if there was an option to turn it off.

Why do you feel so threatened by that? It's a game. People play games for fun. Why are you on the forums arguing with everyone about a mechanic that clearly had hundreds of pages of forum posts about how it's not fun?

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

You know, if you carefully read the forum and Reddit - you can see that many brand new players love the game, but the ones that voice criticism like you are ppl who played a bit PoE1 - didn't make it far and now complain even in PoE2.

And if you read the forums carefully, you'd also see that tons of players don't like it.

It's easy to look at things with a bias. It's hard to take a step back and look at the bigger picture.

The forums are a wasteland from what they were just a few weeks ago. And many people that came onto the forums to discuss things like XP loss on death, are now gone. Why is that?

Well, whenever someone mentions it. You'll be sure that someone like you, is here to argue with them about how wrong they are about it.

You're here, in my thread, which gives feedback on the mindset of this community and company, being unhealthy, toxic even. To argue with me about how wrong my post is.

All you are doing is giving the perfect example as to what I was talking about in my post.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 a écrit :

"

Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

I never said I didn't want a grindy game. I have consistently said that I want a game to respect my time. There is nothing wrong with grinding. But grinding for the sake of padding game-time is a blatantly awful experience for people.

Make it enjoyable. Make it fun. Don't just make it 'long' by removing 5 hours of my game progression due to a death. Don't force me to grind by arbitrarily reducing Item drops, to drive people to the economy to compensate.

Again, you always say, "Make it fun" or "Make it enjoyable", without ever stating HOW. Is it possible to give an example?

For you a long grind is not enjoyable - for others it is.
And where do you lose 5 hours of your progression on death? If you die on level 99 in PoE1 it does not take you 5 hours to get the 10% exp back and in PoE2 things only take so long because it's not balanced, methods are missing etc. and something you haven't reached either.

"

Most stop around Act 5, because the game starts getting tedious. And lots of players are just looking for a good game to relax to, and explode enemies in. And PoE is great at that. Till you're forced to interact with the economy, and you start losing progression on deaths. And it is entirely overly-complex for a new player, and immediately turns most people off.

Nobody is forced to use the economy and the complexity has already improved for new players in PoE2.
You know, if you carefully read the forum and Reddit - you can see that many brand new players love the game, but the ones that voice criticism like you are ppl who played a bit PoE1 - didn't make it far and now complain even in PoE2.

They are forced, they design drop rates around trading.
Just like how Blizzard designed drop rates around the RMAH in D3 and got FORCED to change it. Yet GGG gets away with things Blizzard only dreams of being able to get away with.

POE2 is the worst version of self found we've ever had.

"

Akedomo#3573 a écrit :

"

voodoochile78#9787 a écrit :

OP got swarmed by two trolls within three posts. Sorry dude, these forums are awful.

Yes, they are.

Without realizing it, they gave themselves up as a perfect example as to what this game doesn't need.

And GGG reinforces this with their design decisions, and even decisions on the forums here. Whole reason for my post.

Lost sight of what matters. Fun, player enjoyment.

I agree with pretty much everything in your previous post.
However, I would say that the current ARPG design(and POE1s) is for "gambling addicts" and not "grinders".

They like the illusion of pretending they're playing a video game(note: 0-1 button gameplay where you can't ever die isn't actually a video game).

POE2 was supposed to be different and be an actual ARPG again, but I don't think GGG will stand their ground, and they clearly can't run two games at once, so they will cave in and POE2 will just be POE1 3.0(which it basically already is) so they can continue to generate revenue off the player base they coddled for 5+ years in POE1.

"

ShiyoKozuki#4168 a écrit :

They are forced, they design drop rates around trading.
Just like how Blizzard designed drop rates around the RMAH in D3 and got FORCED to change it. Yet GGG gets away with things Blizzard only dreams of being able to get away with.

POE2 is the worst version of self found we've ever had.

That SSF is not in a great spot in PoE2 has many reasons and it will take a bit to be as good as PoE1 SSF, but that's not "their vision".

While they balance the game mainly around "Softcore Trade", many of them like SSF a lot and won't let it stay in this state. But these improvements will come with time over the "Early Access".

So if you are an SSF enjoyer - wait until it's fixed or play trade until it's done. In the end, SSF is a self-imposed challenge in PoE, not the default.