Game needs a radical shift in direction
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PoE2 is #1 for India Mobile!
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" It feels like you're stuck on repeat. Completely unable to envision that these two games are different. That they don't need to copy eachother exactly. Nor do you seem to realize that this is a detrimental way to make games. There are literally game companies that have been around 30 years, collapsing and imploding RIGHT NOW, because they refused to do anything differently. They just kept remaking the same game. And then to make matters worse, they started using things like the predatory tactics of making a problem, and selling a solution to it. Which further accelerated their downfall. Have you played any other games? Games that aren't chocked full of Microtransactions and gametime padding? Feels like you haven't. Given how vehemently you defend it. Even so far as to ignore the negative consequences of it. I think the funniest thing is. You keep asking for specific feedback, yet the forum is full of it. You're just ignoring it because you don't agree with it. Or you argue with them instead. When someone says "Make it so crafting isn't the main focus of the game" That's feedback. That's a specific change that people are asking for. Yet you'll write paragraphs of text about how wrong it is. The only feedback you want, is stuff you agree with. Bro. Take a break from the forums and go reflect on what people have been saying to you today. This is unreal. Dernière édition par Akedomo#3573, le 17 févr. 2025 16:58:42
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" Do you have any examples of these companies collapsing because of the reason you mentioned? " Ay, like always - your statements are base on nothing. Well, here we go: - Age of Empires II - ARK - Baldur's Gate 1-3 - Crusader Kings III - Cult of the Lamb - Counter-Strike (all) - Cyberpunk 2077 - Dark Souls 1-3 - Darkest Dungeon 1 & 2 - Dead Cells - Divinity Original Sin 2 - Diablo 2 - Dishonored - Dragon Age 1 & 2 - Don't Starve & Don't Starve together - Dwarf Fortress - Elden Ring - Fallout 1-4 - Grim Dawn - Grand Theft Auto 1-5 - Gothic 1-3 - Guild Wars - Hades - Half-Life 1 & 2 - Heroes of Might and Magic III - Kingdom Come: Deliverance - Last Epoch - Left4Dead 1 & 2 - Max Payne 1 & 2 - Monster Hunter Series since the first one until "World" - Path of Exile 1 & 2 - Planescape: Torment - Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2 - Portal - Summoner - Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic 2 - Terraria - Thief - Titan Quest - V Rising - Vampire Survivors - Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines - Victoria 3 - Warhammer 40k: Rogue Trader - The Witcher 1-3 and many many more. Dude... the list is so long... it would be more than a page in this forum. " Nope. I asked for YOUR constructive feedback or is everyone else talking for you? You know, you are the one giving YOUR feedback - demanding something - without presenting something. " Yeah... it is unreal... how ppl can't even come up with constructive feedback when they preach for days or even weeks about the same exact thing. |
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" Sony Interactive Entertainment, EA, Microsoft, Ubisoft, Embracer Group, Unity Technologies, Epic Games, Take-Two Interactive, Sega, and Riot Games, Blizzard To name a few. All have had massive downsizing recently. Many have lost hundreds of millions of dollars. Many of these companies have simply failed to innovate, or take any risks. Re-releasing very cookie cutter games. Others are suffering at the hands of the game being based around Microtransactions in various ways. Player retention. Many are losing hundreds of millions of dollars as of late. Unity is up there, because they were involved with a large fiasco with the pricing model. Trying to extract more money from their users. Other issues are just general mismanagement. " It was a question, and I stated why I was asking it. And it's good to know that you have played tons of games. So you have a good general experience on a ton of games that didn't need microtransactions at all, and they still offered you a great experience. So then answer me this question. What sort of mechanic, or feature, from one of those games. Do you think would improve PoE 2? Which game did you enjoy most? Because MY mechanic/feature suggestion. Is to base the game around it not needing microtransactions. It lets the company put more passion into it. My suggestion is to make a game that is just a fun game. And doesn't aim to keep you playing for 10,000 hours. And removing, or reducing certain things, like the games balance around the economy, would do that. " Yup, but you get to decide what's constructive feedback or not. Aka, only feedback that you want. When I say. Reduce, or remove reliance on crafting. That's feedback. I believe in doing so, the game will be a more enjoyable experience for a lot of people. Far more than it currently has. They would have to increase item drops, and reduce item RNG for this to happen. Aka, higher chance of better stats. So, what's wrong with this feedback. List it off for me, Please. You can also help me understand what's wrong with the other feedback that I gave. I mentioned that GGG isn't listening to a large amount of players expressing displeasure with certain things in the game. Like Xp loss on death. And they should consider listening to them. And I even stated that a lot of companies are seeing consequences from not doing so lately, so it's in their best interest to consider it. So, what's wrong with that feedback as well? " Again. List it off. Dernière édition par Akedomo#3573, le 17 févr. 2025 20:45:46
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" And they did what? Exactly, they started changing their IPs until they were only identifiable by their names. They did not "Hey, we have awesome game X, let's make awesome game X2 but with a new story and modernised improvements", instead, they "Hey, we have awesome game X, let's make a worse version of this game with a higher number at the end to milk ppl who think they get a good game of this IP again until we go broke". " And who does not suffer this? GGG. From year to year, from league to league - the community grew and grew while increasing their player retention even more. So why would GGG care about others ruining their companies? " Most games are not ARPGs, so completely different in their function and approach, but if I had to mention one thing I would like to see in PoE2 from another game it would be from "Last Epoch". A fully functional "market" where players can place items and others can buy them out so "price fixing" and "scams" are fully gone, yep... 100% this. " Ok, great idea. But how do you fund the game development? Ppl want new leagues, new stuff, etc. " Great, you offered constructive feedback. This comes with other problems too, but at least it is something you can submit to GGG and see what they think about it. Only for clarification. I don't mind that your feedback differs from mine. Here are even other ppl where I fully disagree with their view, but even try to come up with actual constructive solutions to support it. My problem with what you mostly said is - it just was pure generalisation and not constructive by definition. |
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I actually wouldn't mind if the crafting in this game was like gambling. But it's not like gambling. Unless by gambling you mean playing a slot machine with 1%RTP where you put 1000 dollars in. And 1000 spins later you get $10 back.
Crafting in this game is almost exclusively like playing a dead slot. A slot machine with extremely high volatility and little to no variance and low RTP. Where you just spin and spin and watch as you piss money away. it is overall pretty unexciting event which is why people complain about it. If crafting was as exciting as gambling I doubt there would be near as many complaints. I'm actually some-what convinced that the crafting has been made purposely developed and weighted to simply waste peoples currency as a means to help curb inflation in the economy. The amount of exalts and chaos orbs I've wasted on crafting has to be many many divines worth at this point. Much more than I've gotten back. Dernière édition par Icesinnox#6517, le 17 févr. 2025 21:31:45
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" That's excatly what happened. They listened to complaining people asking for the games to be made more "fun" and more "accessible" and killed their own uniqueness in the process. OP doesn't realize he is asking GGG to follow the same path. |
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" Some definitely did that. But again. The issue was that a lot of them didn't listen to players/gamers. The game company thought they knew what the players wanted. Made it. Players said they didn't like it. Then they went and made another game.. And didn't listen, and then people start leaving. " Yup. But, can you not see how this is what's kind of happening with PoE 2? They didn't improve most things in the game. They're in a worse state. Very few people seem happy with it. Can they fix it? Maybe. But then you have to ask yourself, why do we need two similar ARPG's from the same company? The superior one will win out. But the common thing with all these companies, was that the company decided the best course of action. And refused to listen to feedback. GGG is doing that by refusing to listen to the enormous amount of players that told them things like XP loss on Death is why I don't play this game. Or that they dislike the game being designed for thousands of thousands of hours of play, rather than fun. " you're misunderstanding me. Let me Clarify. The reason I said that GGG might suffer, is because they are retaining players using a lot of unhealthy tactics. That they have also decided to use things like their predatory MTX, and game design, for profit. This detracts from the player experience quite significantly, in multiple ways. Players around the world are sick of this stuff. They're calling it out, refusing to play. The forums were full of people saying all this, Just a few weeks ago. Players like myself are saying it now. GGG should consider this, as something that could happen to them too. Especially given their current path, and some of the responses they've given to players giving feedback. I don't think you realize how many people have voiced displeasure with the economy/crafting system, the lack of good loot, the time-waste with stuff like xp loss on death. GGG has ignored it all. And if they want to, okay. But this game is simply not going to have the reach it could, if they heeded this feedback. Simply looking at player numbers doesn't give you an indication if it's a good game or not. It can help yes. " Well. This is a good example yes. I agree, If they fixed that the game would likely be a lot better. But the reason I asked this, was to have you think about another, different type of game mechanic, that might do well in the game. An example of this, is from PoE 1. There's a 'tower defense' style mechanic in PoE 1. Unfortunately, it never felt polished, or fleshed out. But I believe it could fit very well with an ARPG style game. Infact, another example of this is a game called Dungeon Defenders. One could argue that game is entirely an ARPG/Tower Defense game, as it's about hack n slash, high intensity gameplay, tons of loot. And tower defense. Maybe PoE 2 could be made in a similar manner? This is why I ask, why does it need to be "Like PoE 1", with all the mechanics from PoE 1? Think outside the box. " People think they want Leagues, because it's all they know from PoE. Again. This is one of those "Think outside the box" moments. I gave you an example of Dungeon Defenders, ARPG styled Tower defense game. It was quite popular. That game didn't have leagues or seasons. It still had some good replayability. A game also doesn't have to be perpetually updated with new content. Everyone is trying to dip into the live service game market, but it's saturated. And they all do the same thing. A news season/league to keep players coming back, a new Item for people to chase after a new hero for them to unlock. This requires constant income to maintain. Which incentivizes microtransactions, and predatory tactics being used to retain players. It also leads to poor quality content. And if they did want to do this style of game. Well, Look at something like Final Fantasy, which had player housing, mounts, armor and weapons, even spell effects. Games can thrive with good gameplay, tons of casuals, and cosmetics to sell. " I mean. I said similar a few times now to you. It wasn't acceptable then, why is it all of the sudden acceptable now? I also said that I had in the past given many examples. My posts about the community forums being cleaned up was constructive feedback. It's not a players job to offer suggestions you know. The game company itself is the one that deciphers how they want to use the advice they give you. Feedback is often given in the form of a feeling. "I hate this" That's still feedback. Some players take it a step further and offer a suggestion, but this idea of constructive feedback being necessary, is just a false premise. Players are also usually more than willing to offer suggestions, when they're asked. But GGG isn't asking. And they're not listening to a lot of the feedback. So yeah.. The original post is pointing to this fact. " This is where the discourse is. Their feedback is still valid, even if it's in a form that you don't like to work with. People are usually speaking from emotions, and constantly having their emotions questioned. Is just straight obnoxious. Expressing displeasure about something is valid feedback. They don't always need to have a suggestion to fix it. This is even worse, because many of the forums, instead of just questioning them. Try to shame, or blame them as well. Lots of people try to "Logic" them out of the emotions. Aka, You just need a better build and you'll be fine! XP loss on death is an amazing example of this emotional vs logical argument. And people can get quite toxic trying to rationalize the emotion. Lots of people don't like XP loss on death because it's frustrating. Lots of people just like chilling with a game. It doesn't mean they're bad. It doesn't mean the game is going to be worse because of it. It doesn't mean that they're going to die 1000 times to get to max level. They're not demanding anything. They're just making the statement, I dislike this. GGG could add in an option to turn it on/off. And both groups of people would be happy. The more casual playerbase, vs the players that like a bit of a challenge/thrill while playing. But GGG has declined listening to this. Which is the point of my post. They are ignoring feedback, and trucking along with what they want to do. That's fine if they want to do that. But there are a lot of companies lately, starting to struggle because this is what they did as well, and players just left. They had thousands of people on the forums discussing it. Obviously there's a large chunk of players that would be more willing to play PoE if it was changed. GGG should consider this. The reason people get sick of the forums, is because their feedback, which is valid. Is always being questioned and picked through. Someone always finds some sort of fault with it. It's obnoxious. It's frustrating. And there are a lot of people that do this so much, that i have no doubt a good chunk of players gave up on the game because of it. Feedback is feedback. Let the game company decide what to do with it. Stop trying to reason with the person giving it. People need to start listening, GGG included. |
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I think they just need to focus on making PoE2 a different experience than PoE1.
We were promised slower, methodical gameplay with souls-like elements and they honestly did a pretty good job of that with the campaign. Obviously, there's a lot to be improved on in that department still. The problem is that it just turns into a zoom-fest towards the endgame, no different than PoE1, except with a decade of less features and content... so just a worse experience than what we already have. What was the point of making a second game if it's just the same game with less stuff at the endgame, the part of the game we're to spend the most time playing? What they should be doing is: • Reducing player and monster attack and movement speed and speed scaling across the board. Getting swarmed instantly with zero chance to react puts a focus on builds that blow up the entire screen instantly, because not doing so means you die. • Reducing player damage, especially on AoE abilities and ranged abilities. Nobody should be doing millions of damage. Nobody should be clearing entire screens of enemies instantly. Nobody should be one-shotting bosses. Ranged characters already have the advantage of being able to move while attacking, all while from a distance, and being just as defensive as melee characters (for whatever reason...). They should be much less defensive or do far less damage to make up for this. • Getting rid of enemy one-shot mechanics and extreme damage spikes while increasing monster health and defenses. You should have to actually play the content, not trivialize it all by blowing up the entire screen instantly or one-shotting the bosses before they can do anything. • Make status effects like pinning, maiming, slowing, blinding, damage reduction, etc. better, and put more emphasis on them. Nobody is going to ever use these abilities/mechanics if straight up killing everything instantly is the far easier and more viable option. There is no point in combo'ing abilities if blowing everything up instantly without any setup is just better. • Reduce attribute requirements across the board. Giant's Blood makes 1-handed maces useless, while also forcing basically every strength build into using it, while also limiting them from using any other abilities except strength abilities. This is bad. If you look at the builds people use, almost none of them involve weapon swapping or even using abilities from other weapons in general. The weapon attribute requirements plus the attribute requirements on skills themselves greatly limit the possible builds people can make. You're never going to see viable builds using spells and grenades in conjunction, you're never to see viable builds using spells and melee attacks, etc. The game actively punishes creativity and unique builds in its current state. • Get rid of towers and just make tablets have charges that players can use on their waystones or map locations to add the effect. It's just a simpler, easier way to do it. The endless Atlas ends up being a huge nuisance after you play it long enough; there's so many points that you lose where you are, where notable maps are, etc. It's just a huge blob of a visual mess; content you've already done and shouldn't have to look at anymore because it's finished. It's far more confusing of a system than maps in PoE1 was, which is like the complete opposite of what the intended effect was. Just let players select a biome, have each biome have a map pool, then the waystone makes the player enter a random map from that map pool. That way people can target farm better (since the biomes have specific bonus drops that the game doesn't tell us about). Instead of having set map layouts, just have the maps have specific monsters and tilesets, then procedurally generate them - like this entire genre of game was founded on. Then people can't complain about bad map layouts. • Get rid of citadels. Just make them into tablets people can apply to their waystones. It's easier for you and better for us. • Give players ultimatum/barya tokens they can try as many times as they want solely for ascending. I've had multiple friends stop playing because they run of out lower level ones to use to attempt to ascend, but end up failing because the content is new to them, so obviously they're going to fail it a couple times. Then they're stuck ones that are too high level/difficult and they can't ascend at all.They were actively punished for trying to learn the content. This is bad game design. • Do something about trading. There needs to be a system where players can submit an item, then other players can collect that item if they have the required cost of it set by the seller, without the seller being present. It doesn't need to be an auction house. If you want friction in trading, just set limits to how much people are allowed to trade. Maybe they only get to post 5 trades a day or something. Problem solved - with an added bonus for you; now people need to play the game more instead of browsing the trade website and have to login more to trade since they're limited to how much they can do in one sitting. Or you could add a gold sink component to posting items for trade, so people need to play in order to have enough gold to trade. Perhaps you could take inspiration from how Last Epoch does trading/SSF? They have a really good system fleshed out for being like 4 dudes working together out of their garage (even though they don't even have a garage; they're spread out all over) - like how you guys started. Remember where you came from. There's probably more I can list but this isn't my post |
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" " Agree, I don't mind there being some fast enemies, but when I was playing I was constantly getting surrounded, no matter the map. They have some good enemy designs that you have to change up your playstyle to approach, but it feels like they can throw too many at you at the same time, like those waterhags. " Hard agree. It literally just feels like map spamming in poe 2. No thought. Hard nerfs to damage across the board. " This will likely get ironed out given some time. But it will also require them to stick to the vision of a slower more methodical gameplay. Having more mechanics that people have to engage with during boss fights will help with reducing reliance on HP stacking, or burst damage. " Will also likely happen if they stick to the slower/methodical gameplay vision. Using CC in video games requires an enemy to be dangerous enough to warrant it. That's not happening when they're throwing 50 enemies at you every 2 seconds. Or if stuff dies too fast. " I did notice this too when playing. Honestly, could probably be solved by just upping the stats from your tree from 5, to 6 or 7. The hybrid builds were some of the stronger builds imo, can't go overboard with it. " I am not sure what could be done for end-game, but I think we should try to deviate from endless mapping. Slower more methodical gameplay and endless mapping does not seem like it will co-exist well. This is my main complaint with the game. It does not need a largely copy-paste end-game. There are certainly some good differences here, but the end result is.. mapping over and over. " The game is full of very punishing mechanics for no reason. I get that they want to slow people down. But there are just dozens of better ways to do it. Nothing wrong with a challenge, but limiting people to one death/one try on a boss in an ARPG, with so many different issues with balance is not giving players an enjoyable experience. " Maybe they can make trading work in a way that's healthy for this game, but I honestly do not think the game is better with it. The loot is so bad because of it, and if people are playing a slower more methodical game. The loot needs to be GOOD. Think about how Zelda plays. It's slow paced, emphasis on exploration and combat, but when you get a new item you're like "ohhh, yesss" I fully believe PoE 2 would be doing better with loot that's more sparingly spread, but significantly more impactful in terms of upgrading your character. This contradicts a trade system however. A slower game needs that impactful loot. The trade system was designed around people spamming maps and super low drop rates, very RNG stats. " It's all good. Everything is valuable. But yes, I agree. I do think they need to make it a drastically different experience. I think too many people expected it to be very similar, even GGG did because they made an effort to release the game with an 'end game' similar to PoE 1 to keep the players happy. But if it's to be different I think they need to look at this sort of stuff, and find other, satisfying ways to keep players happy. Other than just mapping. The one thing I really don't understand, is why they didn't improve the co-op experience. Infact, they made it worse. Significantly worse. It feels like such a wasted thing, especially if they want to keep this as an online game. Give players a reason to play together, group up. It really does seem like PoE 1 and PoE 2, only have online play so that you can trade. It honestly feels like that. Dernière édition par Akedomo#3573, le 18 févr. 2025 00:23:53
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