One-attempt Maps are a massive middle finger, PLEASE change it

"

EffKayZA#1861 a écrit :

The one attempt mechanic is not punishing. It's an impediment to learning and it slows down improvement. Especially in the cases where players are not following a META build from POE creators.

Additionally you seem to be the only one who claims that they have never made a build change/gear change on death.


So how many characters have you played in POE1 that have never died ever or that you have never had to make any changes to after dying?
declare that you've ALWAYS known this and you NEVER needed multiple attempts over years of play, to get to where you are.
Which is what you're saying now and you're not sounding credible as a result of it.

Okay I'll bite the bait......
1) Your first paragraph is absolute nonsense. Learning doesn't ONLY happen in a single map. And of course its punishing.....you are losing items and you are right here getting angry at your "punishment". And ofc you bring up meta builds because apparently that's the ONLY way to play the game and not die right? Sure....for someone who doesn't think at all.

2) I have never made that claim. YOU made the claim that 6 portals allows you to die, change your gear and build, go back into that map and try again with different results. My point was that NO ONE does this, and if you get meaningful change on a SINGLE MAP, SINGLE RARE doing that....then you have major major issues with your build. Most people make changes to their build and gear throughout the entire play, but it is "generally" static at maps. Any changes made to improve your build at maps is less gear-related and more "total conversion of build" related. Because good gear is hard to come by and switching gear in the way you describe cannot possibly EVER make meaningful changes to a BUILD for a single fight (that isn't a very specific boss fight).

Even the NEWEST and WORST players know that, when they start dying left and right in Act 6 that resistances need to be capped. It is right in your face obvious. And then from Act 6 onward, people don't mess around with resistances. That is a lesson learned long before maps or any rng rares even exists. Something you appear to have skipped over at some point. Hell....since the rework to act 1, it's obvious since Act ONE!

3) And now you are strawman-ing like CRAZY to try and make me look foolish, which only makes yourself look more foolish. I will repeat for the world to hear: there isn't a SINGLE player in PoE that uses those 6 portals to change gear around and try to survive that same map. This is the first time in a decade or longer I have heard of ANYONE doing that. If a rare mob rolls blessed by the rng gods to be unkillable and a 1hko-fest.....there is NOTHING you can do via gear or rerolling short of completely and utterly changing your entire build, that would overcome that situation. If you are regularly switching things to anything less than that extremely rare scenario, you do NOT have a complete build and you aren't learning from your deaths.


Whether you have 6 portals or 1 portal, you learn the same way. You improve the same way. HOWEVER, with 1 portal you can't get away with NOT learning quite as easily. And that is the reason it exists. If someone like you is changing gear to suit a unique rng scenario....they will CONTINUE TO DIE to that same scenario for the entirety of their play. Because you aren't solving the problem, you are slapping a bandaid on for that short amount of time.

"

cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

Okay I'll bite the bait......
1) Your first paragraph is absolute nonsense. Learning doesn't ONLY happen in a single map. And of course its punishing.....you are losing items and you are right here getting angry at your "punishment". And ofc you bring up meta builds because apparently that's the ONLY way to play the game and not die right? Sure....for someone who doesn't think at all.

2) I have never made that claim. YOU made the claim that 6 portals allows you to die, change your gear and build, go back into that map and try again with different results. My point was that NO ONE does this, and if you get meaningful change on a SINGLE MAP, SINGLE RARE doing that....then you have major major issues with your build. Most people make changes to their build and gear throughout the entire play, but it is "generally" static at maps. Any changes made to improve your build at maps is less gear-related and more "total conversion of build" related. Because good gear is hard to come by and switching gear in the way you describe cannot possibly EVER make meaningful changes to a BUILD for a single fight (that isn't a very specific boss fight).

3) And now you are strawman-ing like CRAZY to try and make me look foolish, which only makes yourself look more foolish. I will repeat for the world to hear: there isn't a SINGLE player in PoE that uses those 6 portals to change gear around and try to survive that same map. This is the first time in a decade or longer I have heard of ANYONE doing that. If a rare mob rolls blessed by the rng gods to be unkillable and a 1hko-fest.....there is NOTHING you can do via gear or rerolling short of completely and utterly changing your entire build, that would overcome that situation. If you are regularly switching things to anything less than that extremely rare scenario, you do NOT have a complete build and you aren't learning from your deaths.

1) Learning DOES happen in the space of a single map.
You can adjust build, skills, weapons, and apply different tactics to see what works better. In POE1.


2) You're repeating your point in 1) but now adding in a exaggeration.
Don't need to change your entire build to try something new.
In all times when you have died, you figured out what it was and then if you think it was a tactic / approach issue, then you jump in and try again. If it was something that a simple gear change would help with, you change something. in POE1 the flask system was great for that.
In POE2, the Charm system could be useful for that too. If we could give it another try.

3) Again you are repeating the same thing as 2) and 1) and again exaggerating. Again this is not a total build change.
Again. Deaths in POE1 and POE2 are very often clearly understood and many are from unlucky events and bad luck or combinations of gear.
Again you are exaggerating to the point of hyperbole when I say that adjustments are made. I'm not saying change the entire build.
You are.

And you are the one making yourself look ridiculous.

Now you are either for self improvement through experimentation and feedback or you are in favour of following a guide to the T.

What is your position?

They don`t care.
PoE2 is nothing but humiliation.
The problem is that for 10% of the players the game is WAY too easy and for the rest of 90% of players the game is WAY too hard.
1. If you can`t play for more than 100 hours per week you`ll fall behind.
2. If you don`t have a good pc that has no lag then you`ll die from that millisecond of lag.
3. If you don`t follow this exact 3 builds you`ll suck.
Standard league is so far from standard and I can not understand why it`s called standard when it`s ruthless through-and-through.
This game just wants to humiliate everyone that`s not checking all 3 points and this is so sad for me cause I was really hoping for PoE2 to be the saviour of this decades games but it falls off so short on expectations.
I never want to invest money in a single game ever again.
And no. I do not suck at this game, I just hate how ignorant and greedy game devs and companies have become. They can try to sugarcoat it with as many QoLs implementations or as many sweet words in all their announcements but at the end of the day it`s just that. Ignorance and greed.
Why should players like me invest any more money in it? Why should casuals ever try to play this game, let alone invest money in it?

"

theGattz#5205 a écrit :

They don`t care.
PoE2 is nothing but humiliation.
The problem is that for 10% of the players the game is WAY too easy and for the rest of 90% of players the game is WAY too hard.
1. If you can`t play for more than 100 hours per week you`ll fall behind.
2. If you don`t have a good pc that has no lag then you`ll die from that millisecond of lag.
3. If you don`t follow this exact 3 builds you`ll suck.
Standard league is so far from standard and I can not understand why it`s called standard when it`s ruthless through-and-through.
This game just wants to humiliate everyone that`s not checking all 3 points and this is so sad for me cause I was really hoping for PoE2 to be the saviour of this decades games but it falls off so short on expectations.
I never want to invest money in a single game ever again.
And no. I do not suck at this game, I just hate how ignorant and greedy game devs and companies have become. They can try to sugarcoat it with as many QoLs implementations or as many sweet words in all their announcements but at the end of the day it`s just that. Ignorance and greed.
Why should players like me invest any more money in it? Why should casuals ever try to play this game, let alone invest money in it?

Your percents don't add up because I'm a player for which is PoE 2 difficult just enough. I don't want it harder or easier.

Also

1. I play about 20-40 hours per week and feel pretty good (I don't care about people who rush forward, why should I).
2. Yes, if you play on potato then you will suffer.
3. Classic lie used by PoE 2 haters. Try another build than your favorite streamer suggested. It's also fun. Just not as fast probably. I'm curious what "argument" will people like you use when those "3 builds" will be nerfed.

"

EffKayZA#1861 a écrit :

And you are the one making yourself look ridiculous.

No he isn't. He is right.

"

EffKayZA#1861 a écrit :

1) Learning DOES happen in the space of a single map.
You can adjust build, skills, weapons, and apply different tactics to see what works better. In POE1.


And you are the one making yourself look ridiculous.

Now you are either for self improvement through experimentation and feedback or you are in favour of following a guide to the T.

What is your position?

Utter nonsense.....and it keeps getting worse.

Sure learning happens within a map, my post literally said it doesn't ONLY happen within a map. Death isn't your only source of learning either. It is, in almost every scenario, the consequence of NOT learning. This is actually more true in PoE 2 than it ever was in PoE 1 (at least since 2018). You actually learn the same amount or more (because they are way bigger) in PoE 2 maps, than you learn using all 6 portals in PoE 1.

NO ONE adjusts build, skills, weapons, different tactics (in PoE 1) to see what works better IN A SINGLE MAP. It is costly and damn near impossible to do that, as I've already said. In PoE 2, however, people actually do run away from beefy enemies, change their tactics or even their gear, and run back in. For fear of losing the map on death.

And there it is....the classic false dichotomy you have to set up because everything you've said so far is nonsense.

I have to "choose" whether I am for self improvement or following a pre-made guide. As if I didn't already mention all the other avenues for learning that everyone who plays both PoE 1 and PoE 2 go through. As if those "pre-made guides" are made by AI, and not players that learned exactly how I described in order to MAKE those guides in the first place. As if meta is the only way to play the game.

As if there isn't a crap ton of game time where you AREN'T DEAD! But of course....you want to set up the argument like dying in the 1-portal system is instant game over. Because that is the only way you think. Ignoring the fact that it, quite literally, isn't.

Give it a couple more years to learn the game, or don't play PoE 2. I don't really care.

"

theGattz#5205 a écrit :

They don`t care.
PoE2 is nothing but humiliation.
The problem is that for 10% of the players the game is WAY too easy and for the rest of 90% of players the game is WAY too hard.
1. If you can`t play for more than 100 hours per week you`ll fall behind.
2. If you don`t have a good pc that has no lag then you`ll die from that millisecond of lag.
3. If you don`t follow this exact 3 builds you`ll suck.
Standard league is so far from standard and I can not understand why it`s called standard when it`s ruthless through-and-through.
This game just wants to humiliate everyone that`s not checking all 3 points and this is so sad for me cause I was really hoping for PoE2 to be the saviour of this decades games but it falls off so short on expectations.
I never want to invest money in a single game ever again.
And no. I do not suck at this game, I just hate how ignorant and greedy game devs and companies have become. They can try to sugarcoat it with as many QoLs implementations or as many sweet words in all their announcements but at the end of the day it`s just that. Ignorance and greed.
Why should players like me invest any more money in it? Why should casuals ever try to play this game, let alone invest money in it?

Solution whole world has chosen: use different difficulty levels in game options.
Solution GGG has chosen: bah, ignore them all:)

"

Echothesis#7320 a écrit :

Solution whole world has chosen: use different difficulty levels in game options.
Solution GGG has chosen: bah, ignore them all:)

What a lie.....difficulty choices in arpgs? They don't exist. You are either playing on the highest difficulty level, or you haven't reached the endgame yet.

Name a single arpg where you can actually just "play an easier difficulty" and you are playing remotely the same game.

This isn't even true of D4....the easiest arpg on the market.


Your "difficulty levels" are baked into the entire structure of PoE. And you know it. Easy mode = white maps, Medium mode = yellow maps, Hard mode = red maps. Extreme mode = juiced red maps. You can play ALL content at each of these levels.

You even have grades of difficulty WITHIN each of those levels. White, Blue, or Yellow.

But you don't comprehend that. Why? Because difficulty levels in arpgs are, functionally, nonexistent. If you sit around in "easy mode" you don't progress. Across the entire genre.

"

Echothesis#7320 a écrit :

Solution whole world has chosen: use different difficulty levels in game options.
Solution GGG has chosen: bah, ignore them all:)

The whole mapping system with tiers and modifiers is a difficulty slider decided by the player.

Only the player forces himself to play T25++ omega-juiced maps and then blames the game for dying.

"

cowmoo275#3095 a écrit :

"

Echothesis#7320 a écrit :

Solution whole world has chosen: use different difficulty levels in game options.
Solution GGG has chosen: bah, ignore them all:)

What a lie.....difficulty choices in arpgs? They don't exist. You are either playing on the highest difficulty level, or you haven't reached the endgame yet.

Name a single arpg where you can actually just "play an easier difficulty" and you are playing remotely the same game.

This isn't even true of D4....the easiest arpg on the market.


Your "difficulty levels" are baked into the entire structure of PoE. And you know it. Easy mode = white maps, Medium mode = yellow maps, Hard mode = red maps. Extreme mode = juiced red maps. You can play ALL content at each of these levels.

You even have grades of difficulty WITHIN each of those levels. White, Blue, or Yellow.

But you don't comprehend that. Why? Because difficulty levels in arpgs are, functionally, nonexistent. If you sit around in "easy mode" you don't progress. Across the entire genre.

Um, every Diablo game has difficulty modes? Simple damage multipliers do the job well enough.

As for "just play white low tier waystones" - sure, but you omit small detail: there is absolutely no loot there, poe is balanced around breaking it with specific few builds. Point of difficulty levels is that player can still visit and complete all content with less effort. Poe endgame content was always hard locked to T14+ maps.