[3.14-3.15 HC Updated] HOAG Champ. ~7k Life Gain on hit/sec vs. single target. All Content <Videos>

You are most welcome. Tbh, a good chunk of my enjoyment of the game these days is seeing people excited and having fun with a build I got them started with.

:>

-O
I know it probably makes no sense but while I was working on cluster jewels I tried out enduring composure for some jug like endurance generation.
It worked surprising well with a high level immortal call + duration.

I got a belly from an Ultimatum and found it only was 600 life difference from the Kaom's. But I have no clue what 6L setups would benefit this build.
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RiZZaYnE a écrit :
Would using a maloneys mechanism quiver with a curse on hit setup be worth it? Rain of arrows CoH enfeeble or something like that?


I remember experimenting with Maloneys the league it came out before it became ridiculously expensive. I think it is definitely a viable option if you have the budget and there are a range of possibilities for that slot.

I seem to recall the one I found entertaining was toxic rain (for the slow effect) which you might link to curse on hit and either Despair (if you have your white socket triad) or punishment (if you don't). The fun part, from my perspective is the potential combination of tox rain, maim from the large cluster, and hinder from Spider. . . . I spose you could also make the curse temp chains just for the memes, but even three slows should be enough to put the game into real slow motion for most encounters.

Down side from my perspective is primarily the lack of pierce, which reduces clear speed and defense a bit, and the losing another gear slot worth of rezzes on a build that is already hungry for them.

That said, if your budget is unlimited (allowing you to both buy the Maloneys and the life/rez jewels necesary to support it) Maloneys could very well be worthwhile--this is likely a matter of taste.

Do please report back if you give it a try. Particularly, if you end up doing the 4 slows meme version (Tox rain>Temp Chains w/ Maim and Aspect of the Spider), I would love to see a short video. :>

-O

Dernière édition par Orion72, le 5 mai 2021 13:43:20
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LegendaryOne a écrit :
I know it probably makes no sense but while I was working on cluster jewels I tried out enduring composure for some jug like endurance generation.
It worked surprising well with a high level immortal call + duration.

I got a belly from an Ultimatum and found it only was 600 life difference from the Kaom's. But I have no clue what 6L setups would benefit this build.


Gratz on the Belly! I think that difference may expand as you take more life nodes, but nothing wrong with that at all for the time being. As for 6L setups, for starters it means that you can use white triad grips without needing to wait for a 6L quill rain. That will be a significant dps boost.

For the 5L worth of extra slots, you can consider a CWDT>Ball lightning>GMP>Hextouch>Curse of your choice as one option. There are likely many others.

By endgame tho, I spect you will want the extra life a Kaom's provides.

Enduring composure is an interesting choice. I haven't experimented with it much and would be interested in your feedback on how much uptime you get on the charges.

-O

Dernière édition par Orion72, le 4 mai 2021 23:01:16
I played the Juggernaut variant during Heist and seriously enjoyed it. While looking for a tanky boi for Ultimatum farming, I came across this update and I'm seriously glad to see you still focusing on this content. I played Barrage last time, and had no issues -- but I recall that with Juggernaut, you offered advice for those looking for a Cyclone variant. I figured with Ultimatums benefiting so much from builds that offer constant movement and repositioning, you'd have focused on that this time around. Is there a particular reason you're excluding cyclone from this guide, or it it still at the discretion of the player with vaguely equivalent results?
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Drydus a écrit :
I played the Juggernaut variant during Heist and seriously enjoyed it. While looking for a tanky boi for Ultimatum farming, I came across this update and I'm seriously glad to see you still focusing on this content. I played Barrage last time, and had no issues -- but I recall that with Juggernaut, you offered advice for those looking for a Cyclone variant. I figured with Ultimatums benefiting so much from builds that offer constant movement and repositioning, you'd have focused on that this time around. Is there a particular reason you're excluding cyclone from this guide, or it it still at the discretion of the player with vaguely equivalent results?


Hahahaha.

Ok. The answer is I looked at the barrage version first and was very pleased with it. I am literally in the process of leveling another champ to experiment with cyclone.

We'll find out. :)

[Edit] OK, the above is true but a little flip. My first thought was that the barrage version would be well able to tank/sustain in an ultimatum because of the degree of LGOH. I have also generally favored barrage since cluster jewels came out because of the greater ease of sustaining a higher level of virulence than cyclone can.

That said, I am looking forward to my dual CIP experiment. And very glad you enjoyed the original version. :)

-O

[Edit] see below for result of the dual CIP experiment and explanation why I would not recommend it in 3.14.
Dernière édition par Orion72, le 5 mai 2021 06:15:58
Thanks for the quick reply, and clarification! Yeah, I just started mine up -- the great thing about your format for both the Juggernaut and the Champion is that it requires very little to mod for either set-up. Regardless of which one I start with, transitioning to the other is a snap for your structure of build.
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Orion72 a écrit :

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Enduring composure is an interesting choice. I haven't experimented with it much and would be interested in your feedback on how much uptime you get on the charges.

-O



Its up so often you would think you were playing a jug.
I tested with high lv Immortal and call and tiny one and in both cases that few secs of recovery time are amazing (I like frequent short ones). Right after an immortal call the endurance charges come back to full.
3 points that if I can find a way to squeeze in I probably well.

I know what armor I would ultimately like to wear but GGG made its so freaking rare I'll probably probably see a headhunter before I get one.
[I'll won't say because its already too popular chase item I'd like to get one before the prices up more.]

I seem to be having the worst league went it comes to currency drops.
Not a single EX in hundreds of maps and I thought was impossible.
Yes I fully clearing ultimatums and in red maps (when they drop)
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Drydus a écrit :
I played the Juggernaut variant during Heist and seriously enjoyed it. While looking for a tanky boi for Ultimatum farming, I came across this update and I'm seriously glad to see you still focusing on this content. I played Barrage last time, and had no issues -- but I recall that with Juggernaut, you offered advice for those looking for a Cyclone variant. I figured with Ultimatums benefiting so much from builds that offer constant movement and repositioning, you'd have focused on that this time around. Is there a particular reason you're excluding cyclone from this guide, or it it still at the discretion of the player with vaguely equivalent results?


So the results of my further experimenting and tinkering are in and they are not close. The cyclone version of the build appears significantly inferior in 3.14 for the following reasons:


1. LGOH/sec is not close--the mobility, even with extra available dodge, does not make up for the gap. Cyclone ends up with around 10-12 hits/second in a small aoe. Barrage is getting a minimum of 54 hits/second against one close range target + the extra effects of Volley fire and pierce during mapping and ultimatums. I can confirm by feel that while the barrage version feels close to invulnerable most of the time you are attacking, the cyclone version feels much more fragile and actually requires periodic flasking during a fight.



2. The damage is also not close for multiple reasons:
a. I played around with several configurations in POB, and also tested manually what Cyclone can maintain in terms of virulence on a reasonable tree. And the answer, sadly, is about 38-40 stacks on a single target. Not even 45 and nowhere close to 70. The extra 6 gem levels from the Cold iron points roughly double the base damage. But the 70 virulence on the barrage version give roughly 5.35x the base damage. Even a more tanky barrage variation, at only 60 virulence, would be granting 3.375x the base damage. And as discussed below, the barrage version can also get a higher base damage (before applying virulence) than the cyclone version

b. It is not possible to usefully equip white triad grips with cyclone, because there is no secondary 6L to hold cyclone>poison>Faster attacks>withering touch>LGOH>inc duration. This gives up another 33% more multiplier at the top end.

c. It is more difficult for cyclone to maintain 15 stacks of wither. At 12 aps (which is generous and requires some nodes devoted to attack speed) we can expect Cyclone to average 3 wither stacks per second. With a fully leveled and qualitied inc duration, we can get the wither duration up to about 3.5 seconds, yielding 10-11 stacks of wither. It is possible to supplement this with another 6-7 stacks from withering step to reach the cap of 15, but this both adds complexity and uses up a charge of our main movement skill (dash).



Just after the initial nerfs to Hoag and before cluster jewels appeared, dual wielding CIPs was a viable style (though it was always more fragile), hence the place in the original guide. But once you add in the further nerf to Hoag's baseline, Cyclone falls far behind because of its inability to make good use of Pure Agony nodes in a single target situation.

Based on my testing and the information I currently have available, I judge CIP/Cyclone to be much weaker than the Quill Rain/Barrage version in 3.14.

-O



Dernière édition par Orion72, le 5 mai 2021 06:26:08
Frenzy charges provide the greatest benefit to crawler?

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