A broad P2W definition in law would paint premium stash tabs P2W

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Destructodave a écrit :

The more I read this thread, the more I realize the people fighting against the accepted definition of P2W are people who dont want to be labeled p2W players.

Thats really what it boils down to. I see it all the time in my mobile games. F2p is like some kind of badge of honor. "I'm F2p btw!" "F2p btw!" etc.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. It totally makes sense and I'm surprised that I didn't think of this earlier.

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

OP never heard of Acquisition.

Or Alia who wins race to 100 nearly every league with 4-5 tabs.

You dont "need" to buy any tabs to "win" or Trade. It just make it easier is all.

You still waving this argument around? Hasn't it been said multiple times earlier that just because one guy can do it doesn't mean that anyone could do it. It most certainly adds a obstacle for most players and probably even for him at some degree.

Even so, speedrunning a game is hardly comparable to actually playing it. I would estimate that 0.001% of all players aims for 100 as fast as possible. The rest actually cares about other stuff than xp per hour. Fastest level 100 has never been a goal for me even once in this game. Speedrunning is simply a side activity for a small minority.

On a sidenote, that streamer have a 4 tabs plus a maptab which is equivalent to over 15 tabs of space.

Pay-to-win
In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain an advantage over those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items. In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers.


As far as I am concerned, this is the description of a P2W
I used to believe P2W was mostly (If not exclusively) the type of game where level or progression as locked behind a pay wall or pay to get instantly to max level. but after reading lots and lots of debate around different game forums and articles of different quality, they all seem to agree with that desciption.

"Prenium tab is not needed" that is 100% true
But it also "give a gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers"

So in the end I will ask simply.
How is Prenium Stash or currency stash not a paid advantage?

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

OP never heard of Acquisition.

Or Alia who wins race to 100 nearly every league with 4-5 tabs. (someone gifted him a map tab recently but for years he only had 4)

You dont "need" to buy any tabs to "win" or Trade. It just make it easier is all.

In many cases you get lazy with so many tabs and save too much bullshit. Tabs actually my be detrimental to efficient play. I can certainly make an argument for this view based on how much crap I have in over 100 tabs and I've never gotten to 100 ever like Alia does in 4-5 days every league.

I think you'd be conflating a difference of priorities with what an advantage actually is if you stuck to that argument. It's basically a modified "What is winning?" argument, which honestly is pretty irrelevant.

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WhaleBusiness a écrit :

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Destructodave a écrit :

The more I read this thread, the more I realize the people fighting against the accepted definition of P2W are people who dont want to be labeled p2W players.

Thats really what it boils down to. I see it all the time in my mobile games. F2p is like some kind of badge of honor. "I'm F2p btw!" "F2p btw!" etc.

Yeah, I'm with you on this one. It totally makes sense and I'm surprised that I didn't think of this earlier.

"

Aim_Deep a écrit :

OP never heard of Acquisition.

Or Alia who wins race to 100 nearly every league with 4-5 tabs.

You dont "need" to buy any tabs to "win" or Trade. It just make it easier is all.

You still waving this argument around? Hasn't it been said multiple times earlier that just because one guy can do it doesn't mean that anyone could do it. It most certainly adds a obstacle for most players and probably even for him at some degree.

Even so, speedrunning a game is hardly comparable to actually playing it. I would estimate that 0.001% of all players aims for 100 as fast as possible. The rest actually cares about other stuff than xp per hour. Fastest level 100 has never been a goal for me even once in this game. Speedrunning is simply a side activity for a small minority.

On a sidenote, that streamer have a 4 tabs plus a maptab which is equivalent to over 15 tabs of space.

Hows he not playing it? He completes atlas which is more than most and runs like 2000 T15s.

Whats you definition of playing if not that? 40 challenges? Beat all boss? Yeah we all have different goals but he's playing at highest levels regardless.

Oh an he did fine with 4 one of his stream supporters gifted him map tab but he didnt need it.

I've noticed this myself after watching him. I have 117 tab all premium. But rarley need more than 4 in league. I learned not to save so much crap. Craft quickly, combine maps, use currency, etc

I wish I woulda watched him before I bought so many tabs.

"I dont need more than 4"

literally deposits cards, maps, currency on the other tabs..

talk when you only have the basic 4.

at least this thread got me in tears laughing at the comments, some of you people.. are hilarious..

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Albinosaurus a écrit :

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

OP never heard of Acquisition.

Or Alia who wins race to 100 nearly every league with 4-5 tabs. (someone gifted him a map tab recently but for years he only had 4)

You dont "need" to buy any tabs to "win" or Trade. It just make it easier is all.

In many cases you get lazy with so many tabs and save too much bullshit. Tabs actually my be detrimental to efficient play. I can certainly make an argument for this view based on how much crap I have in over 100 tabs and I've never gotten to 100 ever like Alia does in 4-5 days every league.

I think you'd be conflating a difference of priorities with what an advantage actually is if you stuck to that argument. It's basically a modified "What is winning?" argument, which honestly is pretty irrelevant.

just chose one definition of winning since OP didnt define it. For me winning is beat every boss which I can certainly do SSF with 4 tabs but I dont have video/streams like alia to prove it so I didnt mention it. Anyway once one learns efficiency no one needs more than 4. And trading one doesnt need premium tab due to tools like acquisition/forum API

Whole thread is just ignorant whining IMO. Thats okay. I was ignorant too and bought a tons of tabs until I started watching alia.

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Whole thread is just ignorant whining IMO.

whole thread is ignorant whiteknights who refuse to understand that P2W refers to paid advantage which tabs offer.

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CAPSLOCK_ON a écrit :

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Whole thread is just ignorant whining IMO.

whole thread is ignorant whiteknights who refuse to understand that P2W refers to paid advantage which tabs offer.

It's also full of ignorant whingers who think you need premium tabs or 3rd party tools to get your stuff sold via trade sites so what's your point?

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CAPSLOCK_ON a écrit :

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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Whole thread is just ignorant whining IMO.

whole thread is ignorant whiteknights who refuse to understand that P2W refers to paid advantage which tabs offer.

You do realize that's just an opinion (both ways)

It's the inherent problem with P2W in a PvE environment. Not everyone agrees what that means.

For example I think its laughable that a single player game could be P2W, but some insist it can. How, I have no fucking idea.

Point is "winning" can take many forms in PvE, and it's a broad brush to paint. Others think that ANY real money purchases that impacts gameplay is P2W (which by definition is everything)

In the end it's barely worth debate, becuase minds are not going to be changed.

I'll go ahead and quote myself since I genuily want a clear answer from the "Not a P2W" side of the debate

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Funinyourgame a écrit :

Pay-to-win
In some games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain an advantage over those playing for free who might otherwise need to spend time progressing in order to unlock said items. In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers.

"Prenium tab is not needed" that is 100% true
But it also "give a gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers" is also true

So in the end I will ask simply, to those who disagree.
How is Prenium Stash or currency stash not a paid advantage?

And if it is a paid advantage.
How does it not fall into P2W?