2h Pure Physical Heavy Strike Slayer - build review (state of melee)

lolz @ this devolving back to the fallacy of (instead of defenses) 'just play ranged and never die!'

...DURING A LEAGUE WHEN PEOPLE ARE STILL INCESSANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT DYING.

*facepalm*

funnier still, those who thrived this league... used defenses. like armour.

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Baron01 a écrit :

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NouRiii a écrit :

Imho melee should never clear as fast as ranged playstyle, but melee should atleast compensate by having borederline stronger single target DPS and better defensive capabilities and overall Smoother build process (Your investement should be worthwhile )

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This argument--melee should never clear as fast as ranged--does not make sense in context of ARPG where your main focus is to kill monsters over and over again.

Strong single-target DPS being aligned with melee does not make sense either. The way how you deliver damage should not determine how much of damage you deal--what should determine it is what skill you use and how you built your character.

Last part of the argument where it is implying that melee should have better defenses is completely thrown out of window in PoE. This is partly due to its design ... .

Speaking of design you can't expect Heavy strike to clear as fast as most of ranged skills due to the fact that you have to leap from pack to another while playing melee its mostly always like that, but with ranged you can clear the whole screen without moving..

Also about melee having better defenses, you forgot about ascendecies & you threw my point about their design, i pointed out the difference between Melee ones and ranged ones in general when it comes to design is huge (some are still good though -jugg ). As i said Elementalist while buffing your damage still provide interesting mechanics that helps you "live" while something like zerker.. oh well we know. What im trying to say is if the skill tree cant do it due to the PoE design and we know that.. what about ascendecies, and Specialy better uniques as i said before the melee uniques are generalky a fucking joke compared to whats provided for rangers..

there are - or rather were - ways of balancing ranged/casters vs melee/attackers

such mundane and forgotten stuff like mana management. got streamlined to the point of redundancy.

right now people pick mana nodes because of MoM. not because they need to cast spells. triggered spells costing 0 mana is one of the BIGGEST and DUMBEST design decision in gaming history. it turned multi dimensional resource management and pressure (used to balance relative power) into one-liner: get more life.

absurd pack density making flasks permanent -> removes AR/EV gear from the game (except QoTF) as one flask gives you FAR MORE than any gear ever will

this alone broke the balance of power

then - boss/encouters design HEAVILY based on uber strong DoTs (that AR/EV are worthless against). melee with its 'paper dps' got shafted due to miniscule 'time on target'.

the list is long. it consists of pretty much every 'streamlining' done during last 3 years. each major patch REMOVED some complexity from the game (aka choices that matters) replacing them with auto-win uber fotm options

elemental damage always had bigger numbers but it had resists to fight - that balanced it out vs phys. right now you can get -75%+ or more resists on target for laughable investment. going phys is ALWAYS the idiot's choice nowadays.

the list is REALLY long..

ubiquitous access to attack leech, this patch casters get ES leech (and most likely regular leech) (PINACLE OF WTF).

most of these changes were universal but due to its multiplicative nature benefited already strong but handicapped. once the nuisances were removed - like mana cost for spells - casters got like 10+ free passives to invest into life/damage (meanwhile attackers had accuracy to worry about - this patch we got hits cant be evaded crafts.. yet another system removed from the game).


it is not about numbers, but layers upon layers of fast-food-like design decisions done to buy more supporter packs. this game is at its shallowest point in history and next patch is not going to change that. popular? sure. people like free candy and fast-food. sustainable? doubt it. how many cheapo burgers one can eat before realising it is well.. unhealthy?

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robmafia a écrit :

lolz @ this devolving back to the fallacy of (instead of defenses) 'just play ranged and never die!'

...DURING A LEAGUE WHEN PEOPLE ARE STILL INCESSANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT DYING.

*facepalm*

funnier still, those who thrived this league... used defenses. like armour.

Why do you assume defensive builds "thrived" this league? Why do you assume it was all ranged builds complaining about dying? I assume you have some information to back up that claim

In the first place poe is not a game where skill choice decides your defensive options so that claim is largely invalid with a few exceptions, but at the least if you have that information I would like to see it

What we need from ggg to explore this claim is:
1. Skill choice totals
2. Death percentages (as a percentage of those using said skills)
3. Currency/xp generation (as a percentage of those using said skills)

I would like to see those but we have never had that information before

Just to clarify I think you are probably correct in the cases of juggernaut and gladiator, but for every other case i think you'd be incorrect. And we need to explore skill choices for those ascendancy as well, because jugg for example is often used as a caster.

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

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robmafia a écrit :

lolz @ this devolving back to the fallacy of (instead of defenses) 'just play ranged and never die!'

...DURING A LEAGUE WHEN PEOPLE ARE STILL INCESSANTLY COMPLAINING ABOUT DYING.

*facepalm*

funnier still, those who thrived this league... used defenses. like armour.

Why do you assume defensive builds "thrived" this league? Why do you assume it was all ranged builds complaining about dying? I assume you have some information to back up that claim

...because facts?

the most profitable veiled mods had ilvl requirements

the 4785347858 'syndicate too hard, HALP!' threads were full of complaints from... people with lousy defenses. time and time again.

people who ran hard content got pretty good rewards.
people who ran breachstones paid to get shit rewards
people who ran bridge got ok rewards for mindnumbing, suicide-inducing boredom "playing"

and i didn't say "all ranged." not all ranged builds have terrible defenses.

tl;dr - lolz @ claiming that defenses don't matter. especially during betrayal.

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robmafia a écrit :

...because facts?

the most profitable veiled mods had ilvl requirements

the 4785347858 'syndicate too hard, HALP!' threads were full of complaints from... people with lousy defenses. time and time again.

people who ran hard content got pretty good rewards.
people who ran breachstones paid to get shit rewards
people who ran bridge got ok rewards for mindnumbing, suicide-inducing boredom "playing"

and i didn't say "all ranged." not all ranged builds have terrible defenses.

tl;dr - lolz @ claiming that defenses don't matter. especially during betrayal.

So you admit ranged builds can have solid defenses, that is what I was looking for

So if ranged builds can have solid defenses but melee can't have better clear speed, what does melee have?

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

So you admit ranged builds can have solid defenses, that is what I was looking for

So if ranged builds can have solid defenses but melee can't have better clear speed, what does melee have?

yes, ranged builds CAN sacrifice their damage/etc to have some defense. they can't have defenses as good as melee can, though. rearguard/etc can't compete with strong shields.

you seem to keep thinking of this shit as binary. as if ranged builds being capable of having some sort of defense somehow magically means it's the same/as good defensively a melee.

and the main problem that ranged seems to have is (ironically) not enough/no armour.

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robmafia a écrit :

yes, ranged builds CAN sacrifice their damage/etc to have some defense. they can't have defenses as good as melee can, though. rearguard/etc can't compete with strong shields.

you seem to keep thinking of this shit as binary. as if ranged builds being capable of having some sort of defense somehow magically means it's the same/as good defensively a melee.

and the main problem that ranged seems to have is (ironically) not enough/no armour.

No, it's simply that ranged clears faster by default and often times gives up nothing.
Take ms jugg against rf jugg for example. Similar range and defenses, but rf deals damage automatically while ms has to stop and attack. What does rf jugg give up for being able to move while dealing damage?

oh, god. this crap again. put it in the relevant thread. [Removed by Support]

[Removed by Support]

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robmafia a écrit :

oh, god. this crap again. put it in the relevant thread [Removed by Support]

Says state of melee right IN the thread title

[Removed by Support]