2h Pure Physical Heavy Strike Slayer - build review (state of melee)
" The only 'argument' that I can think of is the one where PoE's long term 'health' would be significantly better, how easier it would be to maintain/balance the whole thing, etc ... But there is no way that you haven't tried that many times already, is there ? They could release less new skills and focus more on the existing content ( including the skill tree ), I am not asking for giving up completely on producing new content ( I usually dislike extremes ), but I really think that they could stop going crazy on new skills and stuff and put more focus on existing ones, and I am not talking about remaking them from scratch (@flame totem), but actually trying to improve existing things. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Dernière édition par Fruz#6137, le 26 févr. 2019 à 22:29:14
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Regardless of the mistakes Sid may have made I just want to point out he didn’t somehow make pro-melee advocates “look bad,” as has been asserted mutliple times. That’s silly.
This is a videogame forum, not some political clash between different interest groups who have to manage their PR. A guy making a thread about his bad melee build, whatever you think about it, isn’t changing votes in a “pro-melee” vs “anti-melee” election at GGG headquarters. Rest assured no harm has been done to the movement. @Sid your initial premise was indeed sound and I get what you were going for. Unfortunately, this is the internet, so any flaw in methodology will be siezed upon to tear your credibility down. The good news is I see the voices of concern about melee (and indeed some bigger issues about the state of core design principles in the face of endless power creep and item affix creep) beginning to get heard. When Bex even hints that melee may have a future patch, that’s honestly progress. Unfortunately that patch will likely include more powercreep, so the issue will be moot at a certain point. Powercreep is distinct from balance changes; it causes more issues than it solves. We're all in this leaky boat together, people.
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well.. thanks for (almost) civil discussion. people posting one-liners and junk images can see themselves out
few comments tho: the main reason of this thread was to reconcile MYSELF with MY assessment of what melee is nowadays. i wanted to see it myself, doing something that i consider stupid but trying to have as open mind as possible while avoiding cheats like MS nebuloh or whatever. you know what is the most important part of the result? that - as expected - there is NOTHING good about playing melee in 2019. ive been tankier with a wander or bowmen while definitely having more speed and damage output. the clear speed is PATHETIC. necessity of BEING THERE is absolutely revolting. having to click on each and every mob/pack is TERRIBLE with how outdated POE is in the QoL department. Diablo 2 was better mechanically FFS! the 'generic' way of building melee character IS a noob trap - it costs more yet gives you less. in convenience, in clear speed, in accessible content. it is also pretty sad to see just how little new power creep has been given to phys no crit builds. i hate power creep but GGG has to earn $$$ so it is not going away. if so - id like to have a piece of that too, thank you. regarding other topics: %Armour. imho STACKING it is a trap. flask gives you +100% if rolled well. you put it on stibnite and with one flask press (that you can press a lot thanks to it being cheap on charges) you get 50% evasion chance AND you double your armour. it is worth ~6 average AR passives if not more. few accidental AR pieces (like 250 boots, 700 helmet and 1500 chest) + 100% + 3000 from Lion's Roar is perfectly enough to handle everything other than 5000+ hits in the endgame THAT YOU CAN AVOID! IIRC armour will never reduce more than 1/10th of its raw value. you can ofc get 50k AR (with a HEAVY investment or with Jugg+BrassDome and moderate investment) but that is going to cost you A LOT in passives enter the AR 2.0: flat phys reduction, 'phys taken as ele' and Loreweave. 5 end charges: 20%, flat. then you get Taste of Hate, yet another ~20% (less but with Loreweave it is close in reality), Basalt - yet another 20%. then you have all the ascendancy bonuses granting less damage taken and the best part: this method works vs DoTs. Armour doesnt. you can ofc stack both and be safe but that is going to cost you - passives are not free. cost you to the point where you start to suffer in other departments (unless the meta skill+scaling are used but how many times you can play MS and remain sane?) or instead of bothering with all that you can play ranged. never see the danger and collect loot. Minotaur kills with his burrow attack and that makes him scary. this fight is bugged and you never know where that dude is and die from invisible 'ta daaam' moment when he teleports on you. his damage (if you are melee and are getting hit) is normal and nothing special. unless 'boss deals extra damage' + 'boss ignites' + 'boss deals extra as lightning'.. ghosted happy combo. then all that AR is worthless anyway and you wonder why you are NOT playing ranged Loreweave about other passives in mara/duelist: you say 14 passives. and how many travel nodes? how many missed opportunities to take something else? mara/duelist has terribad pathing, nothing there is worth even thinking about it.. here are 2000 HC Betrayal juggs: https://poe.ninja/challengehc/builds?class=Juggernaut&heatmap you can see what works nowadays. i urge anyone to explore heatmaps. it is DEPRESSING to see how little of value GGG managed to put in bottom-left part of the tree while constantly pimping up templar (fetish or something?) and other caster/elemental parts anyway. ive done my part, seen what i wanted to see. GGG doesnt care anyway - they can promise anything (trading improvements anyone?) and then release yet another flashy caster stuff with a nice MTX sale and a game content that is meta-or-bust (incursion timers anyone?) |
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" Melee used to have higher base damage numbers on gear and gems to compensate, and allow users to pick more defensive options, without lacking damage. Thing's get balanced ^ above logic is not used while balancing. Melee ends up weak. Few minute solutions. Fortify support gives 30-50% more melee damage, and 1-2 sec fortify only. And fortify buff has "Reduced damage over time taken by 20%" But as a melee player i cannot state how many times i cannot go near a scarry target to DPS, cause there is degeneration effects, or mass amount of projectiles flying from target. Meanwhile archers from corner of my screen safe, and doing FULL DAMAGE... All my energy goes to farm DW Daggers! BUFF MELEE!!1!1
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" Not even pressing their attack button twice, because they have mirage archer. Poe Pvp experience
https://youtu.be/Z6eg3aB_V1g?t=302 |
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Imho melee should never clear as fast as ranged playstyle, but melee should atleast compensate by having borederline stronger single target DPS and better defensive capabilities and overall Smoother build process (Your investement should be worthwhile )
Skills that require no skill such as Winter orb should be deleted, its offensive for the term "Skill". Very poor design. Ranged by default have many conveniences, while being cheaper and way smoother to build around you are far away from danger (ranged), you have access for very versatile Skill nodes and Asc that provides both defensive advanatges and straight up Damage Canon nodes (Chaos immune / 10kEs / curses.. etc ) , being spellcaster your gem alone carries alot of the early stage damage for the convenient design of flat damage on the gems. And alot of other stuff Unlike spell caster melee is generaly locked by your weapon choice, so its something else you have to invest in and its not cheap, and if you are going for Uniques, you will be locked behind builing around that unique and Melee uniques in general have downsides compared to the ranged ones..(they even did it for Asc "Zerker" while elementalist is kinda the same thing but more versatile with defensive nodes as well and no downsides at all) basically many barrieres of inconvenieces on top getting close to the enemy, not to mention how much investement you have to throw for health nodes and defensive capabilities that are whack compared to the design around ES (fortify lul). I could go on forever but im working rn.. Simple example that you can add as a conveience for melee, carrying axe, sword or mace provides % more Acc bu default ?. Fortify as base effect in melee skills.. Well what ever nerf cyclone again |
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" This argument--melee should never clear as fast as ranged--does not make sense in context of ARPG where your main focus is to kill monsters over and over again. Strong single-target DPS being aligned with melee does not make sense either. The way how you deliver damage should not determine how much of damage you deal--what should determine it is what skill you use and how you built your character. Last part of the argument where it is implying that melee should have better defenses is completely thrown out of window in PoE. This is partly due to its design where there are no classes, every character can use any item as long as they meet requirements and any starting class can path to any part of skill tree. Betrayal perfectly exposed issues melee characters face in PoE. No matter how defensively you build your character, you will get 1-shot sooner or later. Multiple high-damage high-life targets utilizing large AOE attacks and lots of lingering negative ground effects makes it extremely dangerous for melee to survive, let alone deal damage. You can build a character that will kill these targets quickly to they do not pose a threat but gear requirement is incomparable to spell casters or ranged classes. |
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" There is no watertight argument because they've never tried it before. There would have to be data showing one way is better. But logically, at least to me I don't see how anyone can think its better to keep doing what they're doing. They could not touch spells at all and those people can still play the game and enjoy the new content. Melee cannot play, at least not in the same way ranged does where they actually level and get currency in a competitive way. Or I guess in this context I should say "improving existing content" rather than talk about melee since we all know there's more to it. But I do think melee has been and continues to be the most egregious offender. my evasion is so high i only insta rip sometimes ----- Bug Fixes: People were using cyclone for actual melee builds, so we nerfed it and made blade vortex. Also, we went ahead and made cyclone great for CoC casters while we were at it. Dernière édition par Legatus1982#1658, le 27 févr. 2019 à 07:56:49
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Oh they surely had been doing it at the beginning of PoE, when the community and the speed of the game were very different.
Times change. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" This 100%. Horizontal expansion of skill/class/gear system in every league, would be much more interesting than adding new skills or new crafted mods that simply increase numbers. I think they know that this can't go on forever and there's a hope that it is a temporary solution until 4.0. I really can't imagine this being permanent. |
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