Chris Wilson defends instant logout with all the wrong excuses

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grepman a écrit :

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Cyzax a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

funny, because gibbousmoon stated exactly the opposite.

Just because he stated so doesn't mean he is right...

agreed, I just thought it was funny that while you're both arguing for category 1, you have vastly different conclusion as to which category Chris is trying to serve.

and actually, personally I think it's both. they started out serving category 2,marketing poe as an unforgiving hardcore game, closed beta poe was all about racing etc, and hc was the predominant mode. then the switch flipped. now they trying to balance awkwardly between two chairs, trying to not lose their og core audience

You assume that meta exploitation is implicitly a behavior of a "hardcore" gamer, and that ignoring the meta is implicitly a behavior of a "casual" gamer. I think you also assumed that that was my message.

Look closer, and you'll see that what I say is quite different, and in some cases exactly the opposite.

You have mislabeled the dichotomy, which is actually understandable, since "hardcore vs. casual" is the only dichotomy anyone seems to care about anymore in this forum.

Personally, I find those two labels far too arbitrary to be useful in any way.

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torturo a écrit :

Once. Again.
No. One. Ever. Has. Intentionally. Balanced. The game. Around. Logouts.

Wow. I have never seen anyone make this claim before. Really. Just... wow. My mind is blown.

I thought the converse was obvious because of all the damage spikes. Huh.

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torturo a écrit :

It's a complete nonsense speaking about development and balancing of a computer game, let alone an aRPG.

Oh. Well. Then... I guess they can just randomly roll all the number ranges and it will be fun. Ok.

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Doomstryver a écrit :

So what you're saying is they can't ban/remove logout macro because it would require a rebalance of the game. Is that not the same thing as saying that they have been balancing around logouts in the past (and will most likely continue to)?

I don't know how to express myself more clear.

They can add logout timer in a whim, and basically it won't change anything according balance.
Because they won't have to rebalance. Because game isn't balanced around logouts, at all. Because they can't balance it properly, in general. Because they don't even need it, taking into account they use to disbalance on purpose at times.

What Chris does is a PR trick. People complain about this and that. He comes out with imaginary and non-realistic explanations. But it works - fans have their fix.

"Too much damage on mobs" "I have to skill too much defensive passives" "I have to get too many defensive layers" "If you couldnt instantly logout they would change the game balance completely" ".."

What a load of bullcrap, there is no wonder that they dont read these forums. Every day, thread over thread full of people who are completely cluelss about anything making bold statements.
It's insane.

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grepman a écrit :

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andreicde a écrit :

''It would involve too much balancing'' - Yes that happens when you start the design the wrong way in the first place and balance it for this specific matter. It would require their testers to ACTUALLY test instead of screwing around

they had desync in the first place, and they decided to not re-balance shit after desync was fixed. if you had desync and no logout people mightve rioted.


people on this forum, especially with the influx of the casual crowd, became very short-sighted about goals and design.

people talking about the timers to prevent insta logouts, yet they dont realize if there are timers people will just use portals (not instant, but takes like 1s to open it)...and the timers will really only hurt the people who dc for real.

I think you do have to take into account though that some people do play HC 'casually' as in they enjoy the repercussions of bad play/actions despite not no lifing the league. It's a decent chunk of the population; the problem for them is that if they aren't using logout macros/logout in general, they are at a distinct disadvantage versus people who do use them.


That being said, I think most people who are playing 'competitively' (as in pushing to 100 or pushing as high as you can in HC) aren't even the ones complaining about logout. The intention was put in, and we simply use it whether we think it's a good thing or not.

implementing logout timer => development of new macro=> instant port to town like it was in diablo 2 => added port timer? i don't think so.

Some people seem to hate Logoutmacros in this thread. But at least for the HC it's the best QoL there is. It feels so bad to die to pingspikes and severe syncing issues.

I don't personally have much problems with these one-shots. Except with DD and some bosses.

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Snorkle_uk a écrit :

The idea that the games damage is balanced around logging out, with the implication that the damage levels are somehow unreasonable and require logging out, I dont fully buy into that.

Despite the fact that Qarl has explicitly said so?

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Qarl a écrit :

Of course we balance knowing players will Alt-F4 out of there.

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Snorkle_uk a écrit :

Dunno why people who dont play hardcore care about hc players logging out or not tbh. Let em get on with it, its not effecting us in softcore.

It does, actually. We play the same game, and any balance decision GGG makes around instaloggers will affect everyone. By allowing instant logout, GGG have no option but to put oneshots everywhere, and so the rest of us get to put over half of our skill points into pathing to life/ES nodes just so we can survive mapping.

Also, let's not assume that only HC players care about dying. I'm sure that some SC players just farm maps for currency and don't give a crap when they die, but that's hardly the entire population. There are people who push for level 100 in SC, they care about dying quite a lot.

Personally, I try to make good builds, and my number of deaths is an important metric to me. But more importantly, I want to make varied and interesting builds, and the oneshot meta is the single most detrimental thing in that respect, because it puts severe limitations on what I can do with my passive tree. I would be surprised if I was the only one who feels that way.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not pushing for a logout timer on the basis that the HC crowd have become a minority and therefore irrelevant. I appreciate that the small, dedicated core fans need to be looked after. I want a logout timer because I'm convinced that it would make for a better, more fun game for everyone.

But that's the problem; the game was fundamentally designed from the ground up from the very beginning with the ability to drop out of the game instantly. Chris even said so himself, so you would be asking GGG to fundamentally redesign and refocus all damage in the game all over again. The reason why players are basically allowed to do insane damage is because mobs can also do insane damage. You'd have to retune literally everything from the ground up, from skill damage, multipliers, mob damage, boss damage, ascendancies, the skill tree, etc.


I don't disagree with you; I'd rather the game wasn't designed around it, but it was from the very beginning and it will remain that way. Just like how Chris will never budge on an automated trade system.

This statement of Qarl was when desync ruled them all.

So, don't take it too literally.