Chris Wilson defends instant logout with all the wrong excuses

Honestly at this point everyone knows Chris is full of himself and the answers he provided were just to excuse bs mechanics. He pulled the same stuff on lab and guess what, at some point they ended up having to nerf their ''glorious creation''.

As for his points, they make absolutely no sense!

''It would involve too much balancing'' - Yes that happens when you start the design the wrong way in the first place and balance it for this specific matter. It would require their testers to ACTUALLY test instead of screwing around

''People might quit the game'' - That happens already because the people are bored and in every single build you need to squeeze 3+ different mechanics in order to survive and you have a dozen points left for anything else. Also let's not forget the lovely ES nuke, because that was ANYTHING but balance.

''It would be like trying to play when there are random power outages happening, causing you to lose character unfairly'' -That happens already especially if you have one of those happening during the Lab and you get teleported into a trap/monsters/group map.

Look I get it, Chris thinks POE is still a hardcore game, when it really isn't. If you play on HC and use insta-logout, it is most likely because you are not good enough to do the normal way. Using a macro/anything that insta-logs you out except the game IS a cheat, whenever you like it or not. Most folks do not use macros, they like to log in when they come back from work and just play without all the hassle. If GGG wants to make the game more for the players that no life 24/7 that's their choice in limiting the audience and their revenue.

TBH i'd prefer if the game was slowed right the fuck down, which would remove most of the need for an instant logout.

BUT

I agree it would be far to much work.
Literally rebalancing every mob in the game, rebalancing every skill, the passive tree, gutting mechanics or removing them entirely. the game would feel like levels 1 to 10 in terms of pacing all the way through.

And yes people would absolutely quit if that happened, hell people loose their fucking minds when some piddling nerf happens (see the cyclone thread)

As for the logout timer, you would still DC, and if it's not set to like 1000ms or lower it may not even save you in a few cases and if it is set that low then all you will see is pages upon pages of "QQ your servers suck" when it is the setting they chose that is causing it (you already get a lot of BS like this)

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lagwin1980 a écrit :

TBH i'd prefer if the game was slowed right the fuck down, which would remove most of the need for an instant logout.

BUT

I agree it would be far to much work.
Literally rebalancing every mob in the game, rebalancing every skill, the passive tree, gutting mechanics or removing them entirely. the game would feel like levels 1 to 10 in terms of pacing all the way through.

And yes people would absolutely quit if that happened, hell people loose their fucking minds when some piddling nerf happens (see the cyclone thread)

As for the logout timer, you would still DC, and if it's not set to like 1000ms or lower it may not even save you in a few cases and if it is set that low then all you will see is pages upon pages of "QQ your servers suck" when it is the setting they chose that is causing it (you already get a lot of BS like this)

That's why you start small, aka rebalancing the mobs and then slowly adjust w/e is necessary.

People quit regardless when they do nerfs, you think people did not quit when they nuked ES or when they nerfed vaal pact (a passive that should not have existed in the first place)

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andreicde a écrit :

''It would involve too much balancing'' - Yes that happens when you start the design the wrong way in the first place and balance it for this specific matter. It would require their testers to ACTUALLY test instead of screwing around

they had desync in the first place, and they decided to not re-balance shit after desync was fixed. if you had desync and no logout people mightve rioted.


people on this forum, especially with the influx of the casual crowd, became very short-sighted about goals and design.

people talking about the timers to prevent insta logouts, yet they dont realize if there are timers people will just use portals (not instant, but takes like 1s to open it)...and the timers will really only hurt the people who dc for real.

The problem with the argument is that the premise is wrong...

It is based on the (wrong) premise that this is a multi-player competitive game. It is not!

For the large majority of the players, this is a single-player game. You log in, hack'n'slash around a bit, maybe trade a bit if you need kit, try to see how far you can bring your character, have fun, and not care in the slightest how the other players are doing.

Given that, it makes huge sense for GGG not to worry about insta-logout since it basically doesn't affect anyone else! If they prevented it, it would hurt those of their core customers who aren't on good connections, and that is actually a large number of people (most probably much larger than the amount of people complaining).

The only ones complaining are the (tiny) minority of players who (...wrongly...) think this is a multi-player competitive game. They probably also play on good connections meaning they completely disregard that not everyone does (far from it in fact).

GGG choose to adhere to the needs of the majority of their player base. This is sound business practice...

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gibbousmoon a écrit :

Game designers typically create a game to serve players in Category 1, and then players in Category 2 take that game apart to whatever extent they can. In this case however, we have a game designer who not only belongs to Category 2 but is also actively trying to serve players in that category.

Right there, ladies and gentlemen, is the problem distilled to its essence.

your problem is the game designer not trying to cater to lower common denominator/casual player here ?

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Conversely, designing your game for Category 1 players will not destroy the fun of Category 2 players, because you are not perfect, and exploitation of meta-knowledge will always be a part of the game.

bad logic. VERY bad logic that doesnt make sense. designing the game for opposite type of players severely limits the fun of the other group. its not a fucking diode- it flows both ways. if you make a semi-competitive game into non-competitive at all, you fuck over the fun of category 2 players. how is that unclear ?

you are now trying to say that any game should be designed for category 1 players. this is complete and utter bullshit, sorry.

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Players in Category 1 are being driven further and further from the game with every patch, because of the above. There is a reason you haven't seen me around the forums lately, and that's it right there.

false. poe is as popular as its ever been right now/at 3.0, and its only because of players in category 1 - the casuals.

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This is a waste, because you can serve both categories.

not really. catering to lowest common denominator isnt serving both categories; its serving one and forcing the other to suck it up and create arbitrary handicaps

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Cyzax a écrit :

The problem with the argument is that the premise is wrong...

It is based on the (wrong) premise that this is a multi-player competitive game. It is not!

For the large majority of the players, this is a single-player game. You log in, hack'n'slash around a bit, maybe trade a bit if you need kit, try to see how far you can bring your character, have fun, and not care in the slightest how the other players are doing.

Given that, it makes huge sense for GGG not to worry about insta-logout since it basically doesn't affect anyone else! If they prevented it, it would hurt those of their core customers who aren't on good connections, and that is actually a large number of people (most probably much larger than the amount of people complaining).

The only ones complaining are the (tiny) minority of players who (...wrongly...) think this is a multi-player competitive game. They probably also play on good connections meaning they completely disregard that not everyone does (far from it in fact).

GGG choose to adhere to the needs of the majority of their player base. This is sound business practice...

funny, because gibbousmoon stated exactly the opposite.

The whole "balancing around instant logouts because [insert random]" debates nad statements are hilarious, no matter which side they come from.

With so much scaling by additive multipliers (mods) hence unpredictive magnitude in monsters' power, presence or absence of instant logouts makes little to no difference to players' abilities to survive.
What they serve for, is to get abused by players when shit hits the fan and they are able to react in advance. But in most of the cases there's no even room for reaction, and it's related to the balance as whole, with nothing in common with the presence of instant logouts in game.

The actual truth is, PoE is impossible to get properly balanced. Literally. Not anymore.
Not only, but an actual part of the development is the intentional imbalance - it's what some players call that keeps "game fresh" and is the eactual reason they are here.
Got to take into account the expert nature of the whole balance team as well.

In short - Chris actually said that game can't be balanced and instant logout is here to stay because otherwise it will piss many people off.
But with a better PR expression.

Don't think that if he ever is up to the decision to remove it from game, it will be followed by proper balance. As there's no direct corelation between balance and logouts.

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grepman a écrit :

funny, because gibbousmoon stated exactly the opposite.

Just because he stated so doesn't mean he is right...

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gibbousmoon a écrit :

Game designers typically create a game to serve players in Category 1, and then players in Category 2 take that game apart to whatever extent they can. In this case however, we have a game designer who not only belongs to Category 2 but is also actively trying to serve players in that category.

This is actually wrong... Chris may belong to 'Category 2', BUT the ones he's trying to serve by keeping the feature that a disconnect logs you out immediately is 'Category 1' (the large majority of the players). A side-effect of that is that insta-logout is also possible...

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Cyzax a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

funny, because gibbousmoon stated exactly the opposite.

Just because he stated so doesn't mean he is right...

agreed, I just thought it was funny that while you're both arguing for category 1, you have vastly different conclusion as to which category Chris is trying to serve.

and actually, personally I think it's both. they started out serving category 2,marketing poe as an unforgiving hardcore game, closed beta poe was all about racing etc, and hc was the predominant mode. then the switch flipped. now they trying to balance awkwardly between two chairs, trying to not lose their og core audience