Chris Wilson defends instant logout with all the wrong excuses

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sofocle10000 a écrit :

And this should have been implemented from the start for enemies damaging the players, no matter if it's regarding 1 hit, multiple fast succession of hits or DOTs. A player always needs more than 0.5 sec to be able to react, and when you drop below this threshold, no matter the reason behind it, your design for fights is FLAWED, as the player needs to ALWAYS DIE DUE TO HIS FAULTS, and going below the reaction time is equivalent with the game "cheating" when trying to "win"...

Oh, i couldnt say it better. Game should be slower, so players will HAVE a chance to react and feel it as a real combat.

PoE uses too many multipliers for both player's and enemy's damage, so damage can easily get out of control. Players can get absurd DPS with certain skills/builds/mechanics if they dedicate themselves for that (as we saw shaper kills in 1-2 sec). Enemies also can get absurd damage (for example, when they stack certain map/monster mods), oneshotting players. And even without hard mods, many mobs are "balanced" around being "oneshotted" in <0.5 sec, because if you let them hit you, you wont be able to outlast them, even if you're "tank".

I totally agree with Chri's decision to not implement the logout timer. As far as you cry babies are concerned I would suggest that you go back to Super Mario and play there.

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kan3 a écrit :

I totally agree with Chri's decision to not implement the logout timer. As far as you cry babies are concerned I would suggest that you go back to Super Mario and play there.

Nice one liners buddy. Guess you convinced everyone with that random insult.

Oh, no, wait. You actually contributed nothing to the discussion and your post is just pointless.

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Boem a écrit :

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allbusiness a écrit :

I like how you use a current mirror tier item in current league to justify your arguments. That would be akin to me saying bow builds are OP because Brood Twine exists.


So we got one guy bullshitting about his past rankings who when you parse the old league data he doesn't even have a character on there (which means he's lying), and another guy who comes onto here pretending he's an elite level tier player who has never killed Atziri, Shaper, or the Pale Council. Ok.


Like I said, a bunch of guys who are bullshitting it up.

<---- has no characters on invasion league

<---- has 36/36 invasion bosses killed on invasion league challenge list(publicly available for all to see)

Logic and relevance to thread, go get some please?

I see a trend, you respond, don't make arguments but continue to attack the person.

Have a good one, you win, enjoy your little victory. ZzzzZzzZZZzz

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : assuming you keep up your pattern, i'll just respond with "relevance to thread" in the future and save myself the hassle.

Killing 36 invasion bosses doesn't mean you were ranked 14. Logic 101.


Both you and Snorkle love to pretend you're better players than everyone else. Snorkle over here has 15k hours played according to him and yet has yet to kill either the Pale Council, regular Atziri, much less Shaper, and you are over her saying you were rank 14 when you weren't (I know because you can parse through old data and see you never were rank 14, and the fact that I was paying attention to the ladder at the time and you never were on that list).


But hey, keep pretending you guys are elite level players that plays SC and never even touch bosses. Not to mention, neither of you have ever completed an Atlas, never have killed Eater of Souls, etc.



Remember, you guys are the ones pretending like you guys are better than everyone, saying that other people don't know how to play, people play with bad builds, etc. When you start calling other people trash, people are going to investigate whether you can substantiate your claims or not. None of you deal with the hardest content in the game.

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allbusiness a écrit :

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Boem a écrit :

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allbusiness a écrit :

I like how you use a current mirror tier item in current league to justify your arguments. That would be akin to me saying bow builds are OP because Brood Twine exists.


So we got one guy bullshitting about his past rankings who when you parse the old league data he doesn't even have a character on there (which means he's lying), and another guy who comes onto here pretending he's an elite level tier player who has never killed Atziri, Shaper, or the Pale Council. Ok.


Like I said, a bunch of guys who are bullshitting it up.

<---- has no characters on invasion league

<---- has 36/36 invasion bosses killed on invasion league challenge list(publicly available for all to see)

Logic and relevance to thread, go get some please?

I see a trend, you respond, don't make arguments but continue to attack the person.

Have a good one, you win, enjoy your little victory. ZzzzZzzZZZzz

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : assuming you keep up your pattern, i'll just respond with "relevance to thread" in the future and save myself the hassle.

Killing 36 invasion bosses doesn't mean you were ranked 14. Logic 101.


Both you and Snorkle love to pretend you're better players than everyone else. Snorkle over here has 15k hours played according to him and yet has yet to kill either the Pale Council, regular Atziri, much less Shaper, and you are over her saying you were rank 14 when you weren't (I know because you can parse through old data and see you never were rank 14, and the fact that I was paying attention to the ladder at the time and you never were on that list).


But hey, keep pretending you guys are elite level players that plays SC and never even touch bosses. Not to mention, neither of you have ever completed an Atlas, never have killed Eater of Souls, etc.



Remember, you guys are the ones pretending like you guys are better than everyone, saying that other people don't know how to play, people play with bad builds, etc. When you start calling other people trash, people are going to investigate whether you can substantiate your claims or not. None of you deal with the hardest content in the game.

Relevance to thread?

Peace,

-Boem-

Achievement lists may be buggy now. I have killed Shaper and I have killed every breach lord, yet I have only listed Tul and Xoph. From which, funnily enough, I have only killed Tul, this league.

That said, it seems that Boem haven't completed any of those (or maybe he did, can't quite say since he haven't said a word about it), and is really speaking from position of know-it-all meanwhile not being very experienced.
Don't want it to sound like an attack, but it is pretty silly to be talking down to people because you happened to have done some maps and then when someone is talking down to you (because they happen to be more experienced) you go with you only attack me card. I mean, if you want to play it that way, be consistent with your own rules. :S

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Perq a écrit :

Achievement lists may be buggy now. I have killed Shaper and I have killed every breach lord, yet I have only listed Tul and Xoph. From which, funnily enough, I have only killed Tul, this league.

That said, it seems that Boem haven't completed any of those (or maybe he did, can't quite say since he haven't said a word about it), and is really speaking from position of know-it-all meanwhile not being very experienced.
Don't want it to sound like an attack, but it is pretty silly to be talking down to people because you happened to have done some maps and then when someone is talking down to you (because they happen to be more experienced) you go with you only attack me card. I mean, if you want to play it that way, be consistent with your own rules. :S

I completed all breach lords except for chayula, since i usually play SSF or don't bother to much with trading.

And it took a lot of fucking time to gather chayula splinters which made it basically a trade only encounter and better worth selling if you gathered a stone.

But again, relevance to topic?

It doesn't take much to realize i play this game a lot, just a quick glance at the amount of characters i have and then considering i deleted around 90+ just to make space for new ones should be sufficient.
And i enjoy playing this game for the mechanics and interactions.

So yeah i know a lot about defenses, offenses, monster value's etc since they are all relevant if you wanna build around interactions/mechanics without making a character that falls over instantly when pushing it to far.

There is a reason why i have people like Ghudda on my friends list, some people just love fucking with the mechanics of this game and have done so since the start.

high tier content is irrelevant to me, i complete it just because it's there, but it's never a goal for me. Pushing the mechanics is and ultimately leads to doing that content to test.

I can deduce quite easily when statements are hollow, because they don't allign with my experiences in the game and how mechanics behave.

Peace,

-Boem-

edit : btw perq his original statement was

1) tank builds have 0 dps

Which is factually inaccurate and doesn't line up with reality, especially not in todays game-state where you have to try extremely hard to not have damage if you have a basic understanding of PoE.

If he made that statement three years ago, i would have responded differently.

2) Boem has no experience with hardcore therefore his opinion on log-out is invalid

Complete fallacy, trying to discredit another user(against forum rules) and factually inaccurate since i played hardcore for two years or so when starting PoE.

So yeah.

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kan3 a écrit :

I totally agree with Chri's decision to not implement the logout timer. As far as you cry babies are concerned I would suggest that you go back to Super Mario and play there.

Suddenly, playing PoE starts to feel exactly like playing Super Mario!
In Super Mario, your character oneshots enemies, and is oneshotted when enemy hits you.
It looks like GGG want to make the same in PoE!!!

I dont want to play Super Mario, i want to play something like BattleToads, where you can soak up some hits before you die, and enemy can do the same as well.

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Snorkle_uk a écrit :

what i dont agree with is that theres a 1 shot meta in terms of monster damage, and that 1 shots are everywhere. In my experience theres telegraphed boss 1 shots like slams, and outside of that theres hardly any at all, with the caviat that we are talking about a character with an appropriate level of defence for the level of content. If someones running around with 5.5k life, 15k evasion and acrobatics in hard red tier maps then yeah, thats a death trap setup thats gonna get gibbed by mobs in a map. I feel like I hardly ever get instantly killed by mobs even when Im playing awful builds like that if Im being honest.

[...]

I think we're fundamentally in agreement here, then. What I mean by oneshot meta is that the incoming damage from monsters is often very much, very quickly. Obviously, how tanky you build your characters can change whether you actually die to that damage or not, but the fact remains that it's something everyone has to deal with. Over time, 15k evasion and acro could give over 50% mitigation, but the reason such a build doesn't work in red maps is because you can and will take your full life pool's worth of damage in one hit. But if there were no big hits like that, it would be impossible to kill someone with an instant logout macro.

You're absolutely right that the clearspeed meta can obfuscate this problem. Even if we accept that people don't build their chars tanky enough (by whatever metric you want to use), it's reasonably justified: you can get away with building glass cannons that are literally untouchable by most monsters due to their speed. And if you do get hit? Doesn't really matter, as long as you don't die you can just instalog out of there and nothing can ever go wrong.

And yes, it certainly doesn't help that some endgame builds deal literally hundreds of times the DPS of other builds.



You know, for all the talk about how big of a rebalance job it would require to add a logout timer, I can imagine a fairly accurate approximation. Just take PoE as it is, and:
- Add a 5 second logout timer
- Multiply player life/ES by a factor of 10
- Multiply monster life/ES by a factor of 10-100, depending on the monster

Just enough so that encounters are guaranteed to last at least a few seconds. Wouldn't that make for a more engaging experience than just running past mobs and blowing them up before they can lift a finger? And wouldn't it be much more of an adrenaline rush when things start going wrong, knowing you can't just instantly chicken out, instead you're forced to solve the problem on the game's terms?

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allbusiness a écrit :

Snorkle over here has 15k hours played according to him and yet has yet to kill either the Pale Council, regular Atziri, much less Shaper

errrr.... wut? lol


I said 14k. Never killed shaper or the council? lol? Of course Ive killed them, what on earth are you talking about?


never killed regular atziri?


youre a special kind of crazy mate.






Ive never claimed to be a better player than everyone else, ever. Ive never even claimed to be a good player. In fact quite the opposite, Ive claimed to be a fairly average to bad player on many many occasions.

I do know a lot about the mechanics of the game and Ive got a lot of experience playing with them, particularly where different defences are concerned. For 3+ years now Ive played every league either self found or on a budget of about 5-30 chaos, I know what it is to scrub about in the dirt, I started with nothing day 1 open beta picking peanuts out of poo with everyone else, and i do the same every league just like we all do. On the flip of that I have a sandbox mode in standard, theres not many people outside of the devs on their internal testrealms where they can force spawn items that have access to as wide a range of gear. Most ppl dont even have access to the variety of items I have to have first hand experience using so many different defence mechanics in so many different ways.

what are we building today brain?



When was the last time you tried stacking armour, evasion, endurance and block together business? Whats the point cost of doing so and how much of each would one need to make it effective? What would it cost in a league to achieve those numbers? How realistic would it be self found? What about evasion + vile bastion + recharge start ci? how does a split of 5.5k life, 5.5k es and 5.5k armour work on a close range caster in red maps in the 3.1 game balance? how did that same setup fair in 3.0? in 2.0? Can you tell me? do you know? How does it compare to say a wicked ward armour+es ci build? Where does one shine and the other find itself wanting? Realistically how much armour can such a ci witch stack compared to a low life guardian? whats the cost difference in gear? whats the clearspeed difference tradeoff? Can you answer these questions from first hand experience?



but I havent killed normal atziri obviously. I killed a double damage mod temp chains t16 vaal temple map deathless 2 days ago in abyss league with a character whos top item spend was a 4 chaos vix lunaris shield in week 1 while I spent 9 exalts on stygian belts to take back to standard and then quit the league. I only go back there to run maps with my guildmate cause she gets lonely playing by herself.

When I quit harbinger at the end of the first month I had over 220 exalts worth of currency in my stash, Id spent about 4 chaos on the gear I was actually wearing. Normal atziri? What is the meaning of any content? you dont think I have the means to make enough wealth to brute force any content in the game in either perm or league if I chose to? It doesnt even matter that Im not a good player, theres a million and one guides out there for builds that can faceroll anything you want to faceroll on a gear budget thats less than 1/10 of what I could make in a week or 2 from simply chaining T2 maps with a shit self found character. Its so meaningless I dont even bother, the only meaning left in the game is solo self found hardcore, Im just interested in the mechanics of how different setups perform in endgame mapping, the knowledge game. Atziri? People like foxtactics in my guild had that boss on farm from ambush when it was first introduced, you put on a 1c coil, a 1c rotp, put in these exact passives, dont stand in the flameblast and hold down the button till the boss is dead. Great, there you go, it is known, its been known for 3 years, paint by numbers, who cares?







Its all meaningless mate. You dont need to be a good player or even know much of anything about the games mechanics to have all these things and kill all the bosses. The amount of people Ive spoken to who have gear like this and dont know some of the most basic game mechanics stopped surprising me years ago. You claim Im an elitist because I said that a build that gets 1 shot all the time is a bad/undergeared build, and yet youre discrediting me because Im not a top tier player whos killed atziri and the council, not that youre an elitist or anything right?

I can assure you Ive killed them and that doing so means nothing, that doesnt make me hvr. If you want a click bait comment you can hate on and lol @ my absurd claims I do have more first hand experience playing a far wider variety of defences than hvr has tho and am probably in a better place to comment on the relative balance and benefits of said defences in every day mapping situations, and i did teach him how to group snapshot lvl21 aura gems as part of his snapshot olympics uber atziri attempt, because believe or not despite not being a great player I have actually learned a thing or 2 from playing this game daily for the past 5 years, and maybe some things that a meta following ladder pusher whos concerns are the fastest current xp strat doesnt know.

I could teach mathil a thing or 2 about stacking defence, and he could teach me a lot of things about stacking damage, we all have our areas of interest.

So there you go, pin that one up on your pathetic little troll dart board, let me guess how that paragraph reads through the all business filter: "he thinks hes a better player than hvr and mathil lol!!!" am I right? Knock yourself out punchy.




were discussing the game, what is possible. It doesnt matter if ive played more hours than boem, have way more gear, have more money (I probably dont Ive got fuck all currency usually tbh), if he has played a bunch of builds that can map all day and not get 1 shot then he knows for a fact that you can make a bunch of builds that can map all day and not get 1 shot. It is therefor a fact of the game, if my experience is different then all I can say is that I havent played a build that can map all day and not get 1 shot, to say that no build can do that would require a person to have played every build in the game. To say that builds can do that all one has to have experience of is playing a few builds that can do that. Were talking about the game, theres a hard and fast truth out there and we are all inputting our experiences to try and discover between us what those facts really are. Our experiences matter, sharing them matters, its not about ego or whos the best player or who wins whatever argument or who has the fastest solo self found hc blindfolded shaper kill. We dont matter, the facts of the game matter.