Why did Eternal Orbs have to be removed and not mirrors?

"

linkstatic a écrit :

"

Apos91 a écrit :

"

linkstatic a écrit :

Well, nice ones, good for you. I don't see how they are anything that hurt the market if they took eternals to be made. Or why the bow needs eternals to be made, but that's another thing altogether.

Either way, aren't you admitting that mirrors create copies of items that are worth much more than a mirror's weight in value? Thus mirrors do inflate the market, whereas eternals get used up in large amounts for that one item to be created. And without mirrors, only 1 person would be able to have it at a time and either it would be sold or used.

How is that multiple copies being created is better? Multiple copies of a thousand of exalts investment according to you, each one costing much less than the original.

I don't know, you're only strengthening my perception that mirrors are the elephant in the room here. Eternal orbs seem to be expended just fine according to the same expectations of exalts, chaos, etc.

That bow was made half way between Eternals being a thing and Eternals being removed and Masters becoming a thing. There was an error with the Suffix page on the PoE website where they listed an Attack Speed tier higher than what a bow could achieve, so I Eternalled over it so many times although the ASPD roll I got was actually T1 for bows.

Eternals create perfect items, regardless of how powerful they can be in the future cos of higher item levels. Mirrors only create items that were good at the time they were made. And also the hefty hefty fee that comes with actually mirroring an item.

And the problem of having perfect items after an investment of thousands of exalts for a single item slot, if there is only one and never a replicate, is what?

"

Apos91 a écrit :

"

grepman a écrit :

this is simply false. before master crafting existed, and rare/unique items rained downed from every source, rare gear was picked up by people actively.

if what you describe was the case, people wouldnt mf farm piety and dominus for rares.

Erm...people still pick rare gear for the same reason, chaos recipes.

The reason why people don't MF farm piety and dominus is not that rares aren't as strong, it's that cullers have diminished in value over the years, with IIQ nerfs, etc.

And dominus/piety culling was mostly in hope of a lightning coil/shav's, not good rares.The rares mostly went in chaos recipes.

first of all, I wasn't talking about chaos recipe. I'm not talking about rare drops as currency, how hard is that to understand?

second less and less people even pick up rates for chaos recipe.

I'm talking about value of rare items as drops that are used. is that clear? each crafting system introduced devalues them even further. you can argue all you want that the variance in rolls already made them meh in the first place - and that's true

but that DOESNT change the fact that each crafting introduction FURTHER devalues them. pre master craft dropped rares were valuable enough. post essence craft dropped rares have near zero value. essence crafting didn't make rares that dropped great again, it made white bases and applying essence great.

your inability to admit that powerful crafting devalues dropped items is truly baffling

"

antilev2 a écrit :

Pretty hilarious notion going on here that anyone's ever actually made a profit out of a mirror service.

lol

"

grepman a écrit :

"

Apos91 a écrit :

"

grepman a écrit :

this is simply false. before master crafting existed, and rare/unique items rained downed from every source, rare gear was picked up by people actively.

if what you describe was the case, people wouldnt mf farm piety and dominus for rares.

Erm...people still pick rare gear for the same reason, chaos recipes.

The reason why people don't MF farm piety and dominus is not that rares aren't as strong, it's that cullers have diminished in value over the years, with IIQ nerfs, etc.

And dominus/piety culling was mostly in hope of a lightning coil/shav's, not good rares.The rares mostly went in chaos recipes.

first of all, I wasn't talking about chaos recipe. I'm not talking about rare drops as currency, how hard is that to understand?

second less and less people even pick up rates for chaos recipe.

I'm talking about value of rare items as drops that are used. is that clear? each crafting system introduced devalues them even further. you can argue all you want that the variance in rolls already made them meh in the first place - and that's true

but that DOESNT change the fact that each crafting introduction FURTHER devalues them. pre master craft dropped rares were valuable enough. post essence craft dropped rares have near zero value. essence crafting didn't make rares that dropped great again, it made white bases and applying essence great.

your inability to admit that powerful crafting devalues dropped items is truly baffling

Sure thing, look at those 900+ ES Regalias being sold for scraps thanks to essences.

The reason why people don't pick up rares as much is because with the clear speed meta it's easier to accumulate wealth and then chaos spam a good base.

Rares always do and did diminish in value as leagues progress and eventually there's a cutting point where chaos recipe is more worth it than identifying everything. People have also grown more picky and only the top bases are considered worthy anymore. This is also exacerbated by the fact that life is in a very bad spot at the moment, with most builds relying on ES to survive. And the base item is more significant for them than life builds.

Nothing to do with rares getting worse. It's more of a meta-gaming after-effect than rares getting worse in themselves. Within the first week of the league people might go for up to second best base, but after that it's a bit unlikely.


I do agree regarding some master crafts though. Certainly not for essences. Essences play with the same rules as good rares.

"

Apos91 a écrit :

The reason why people don't pick up rares as much is because with the clear speed meta it's easier to accumulate wealth and then chaos spam a good base.

yes, but that doesnt change the fact that the more powerful and accessible crafting is introduced, the more it further devalues the rares.

"

Nothing to do with rares getting worse. It's more of a meta-gaming after-effect than rares getting worse in themselves. Within the first week of the league people might go for up to second best base, but after that it's a bit unlikely.

and crafting further devalues rare loot. you dont find the fact that in loot-based game people dont pick up loot besides currency and then use the said currency to craft white bases, alarming and *wrong* at its core ? essentially its a game of currency and white bases, not items anymore.

"

I do agree regarding some master crafts though. Certainly not for essences. Essences play with the same rules as good rares.

no, essence crafted rares arent even rare items per se. they are made by using white bases and essences. and chaosing them will remove the essenced mod.

they might as well be called uniques that can have master craft mods that exist on rare items. because thats what they are. they cant be dropped. and the whole concept of 'making rare items great again' was a ruse and simply false. essences didnt make rares great again. they introduced a new class of items made from white bases that *kinda* resemble rares that drop but not really

"

grepman a écrit :

"

Apos91 a écrit :

The reason why people don't pick up rares as much is because with the clear speed meta it's easier to accumulate wealth and then chaos spam a good base.

yes, but that doesnt change the fact that the more powerful and accessible crafting is introduced, the more it further devalues the rares.

"

Nothing to do with rares getting worse. It's more of a meta-gaming after-effect than rares getting worse in themselves. Within the first week of the league people might go for up to second best base, but after that it's a bit unlikely.

and crafting further devalues rare loot. you dont find the fact that in loot-based game people dont pick up loot besides currency and then use the said currency to craft white bases, alarming and *wrong* at its core ? essentially its a game of currency and white bases, not items anymore.

"

I do agree regarding some master crafts though. Certainly not for essences. Essences play with the same rules as good rares.

no, essence crafted rares arent even rare items per se. they are made by using white bases and essences. and chaosing them will remove the essenced mod.

they might as well be called uniques that can have master craft mods that exist on rare items. because thats what they are. they cant be dropped. and the whole concept of 'making rare items great again' was a ruse and simply false. essences didnt make rares great again. they introduced a new class of items made from white bases that *kinda* resemble rares that drop but not really

Currency was always supposed and envisioned to be used for crafting as much as trading. The current chaos spamming approach is much closer to what was envisioned than having currency being hoarded endlessly. Exalts are now actually being used consistently.

I understand that you just might have liked it better when it was mostly about looting rares though.