10 Reasons Why We All Play Chaos Builds (Bump if You Hate Reflect)
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Reflect working off your own accuracy against your own mitigation and avoidance is extremely retarded. So is reflect being a general map mod.
Reflect should not be avoidable but the amount of damage reflected should be MUCH lower. It should also an aura specific to rares and uniques that you can easily notice (this needs to come with a solution to offscreening). You shouldn't need to build and gear around a single poorly implemented mechanics, you should be able deal with it on the go (slow down the dps, use a different skill, use flasks, etc) instead of exploding instantly. |
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I'd be for reflect removal *and* instant life leech removal. All forms of instant life leech. Then monster damage can be properly balanced without requiring one-two shot mechanic to provide challenging content.
Ranger builds list: /917964
When two witches watch two watches, which witch watches which watch? If the witches watching watches watch the same watch while you watch which witch watches which watch, they switch watches; then, the watch switching witches watch which watch you watch. Watching witches watch watches is not for the faint of heart... |
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" I think I'd tweak that a bit, personally: -Remove all instant life leech (life gain on hit/kill/etc is fine though, as long as it's not based on damage dealt) -keep reflect, but make reflect damage happen over time instead of instantly (set amount of time, like 2 seconds, not a rate based on max life/mana/es like leech), and with a noticeable indicator placed on *you* if you're currently being sapped by a reflect DoT. (and despite being a DoT, it would still need to pass the usual 'hit' checks to apply and, in the case of physical reflect, would determine the total DoT damage based on if the full damage had 'hit' your armor) Now you won't instakill yourself on reflect and will have some kinda response time to counteract it, but it can still threaten you and punish you if you're too glassy to handle it or too careless/brainless to notice. Keep the build/gear checks in place, but remove the instant deaths. Dernière édition par Shppy#6163, le 23 mai 2016 à 19:52:06
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"Well there's a skill, so it's false that the game has none. "Perhaps. But should it be this way? As far as the bulk of grepman's post goes, I thought about it quite a while and would like to provide quite a lengthy response.
Spoiler
The idea of "glass" and "tank" when taken to their theoretical extremes are cancer, as the "perfect" for both strategies trivializes all content. Good gameplay involves interactivity and meaningful choices made during combat, not only before.
One interest of mine has been the concept of "turnifying" live-action gameplay - that is, breaking it up into conceptual "turns." My knowledge of the science behind human reaction time is continually expanding, but my current understanding is that the minimum reasonable time for a human being to adequately respond to a telegraphed action is about 1 second of human and Internet response time, plus escape animation time (for example, the animation length of Leap Slam or Whirling Blades). Since I would consider this to be two (or more) "turns" of combat - enemy "charges" for one turn (or more) then delivers on another turn - then halving that amount of time would give the approximate duration of a "turn" in an action game: one half a second, plus half the maximum amount of time your character can be locked in an animation. It's important to note that developers can control the pace by setting limits on animation time, but also that the maximum pace allowed by human (and internet) reaction time is the strongest test of skill. However, in any case it's really, really difficult to argue that one "turn" is less than half a second. Which means that an encounter which is over in under half a second is very similar to a turn 1 kill in a game like Magic the Gathering (but without Instant cards) - essentially, a totally non-interactive coin flip to see who goes first. (By "encounter" I pretty much mean a pack of monsters, so I'm not saying players shouldn't be able to OHKO some monsters.) Now think of some various turn-based games, and think of how many turns an "encounter" should be in that game for it to feel good. Multiply that by half a second per turn (minimum), and that's about where an action RPG should be. Currently, a significant number of encounters in PoE have a duration of zero seconds. I'm not rounding, I'm literal as fuck; the encounter literally ends before the player is aware of its existence. There is something monstrously wrong with that. Now, within the confines of a more reasonable, interactive encounter length, I am fully behind supporting aggressive, "glass" strategies which try to make offense the best defense. But even in those cases, the threat of not doing enough damage and being overcome should be a very real one... just as the threat of not having enough mitigation and recovery to weather the storm should be a very real one. So that is essentially why you say things like "there's no skill," because PoE combat currently lacks sufficient length to introduce any meaningful interactive depth, outside of the occasional boss fight. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Dernière édition par ScrotieMcB#2697, le 23 mai 2016 à 22:16:59
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" ok you got me there " in an arpg ? yes. the biggest skills that someone like havoc possesses is risk management and flask management. theres only so many things that you can do in a conventional arpg. poe is about gear mostly. give me havocs gear build and supply and Ill be able to do content like him. will I be as efficient or as fast ? not a chance in hell. but I will be able to do content. but, give me someones gear in someone ranked high globally in a game, like cs:go (I think it has gear). how do you think I will do ? exactly. and it will be real bad if I try to watch tv while playing it there is one definition about skill-based games that I like to use. I ironically read it on a site that hates games with grind (ie poe, darkest dungeon and most of rogue-likes) and likes those with inherent skill. anyway, it goes: if you play perfectly from beginning of a game, will you necessarily win, and not just win, but win overwhelmingly ? the answer in skill-based games is yes. the answer in games which have some or a lot of RNG and no pure skill/knowledge, is 'likely', but not deterministic. some like poker, only manifest itself over a long run. " I love turn-based games but 'feel good' per encounter is subjective. I loved (and still do) HoMM and am fine with waiting ~5 minutes per player turn. todays players are horrified with such prospect. even an 'old school'-ish dude like totalbiscuit who likes HoMM series, is appalled by waiting 5 minutes for someone elses turn (omg wasting time) " to be honest, no not really. the game took no skill (ok, deliberate hyperbole here) in 2013 when I was leveling my first witch with all blue items through cruel, and takes no real skill now. the problem of skill in arpg is a big one. the only real challenges are mechanical, and those are easily discerned by patterns. for arpgs to have a semblance of skill, theyd have to get a mmorpg uber-mechanical boss that has to be strategized against. thats the only remedy I can think of. the problem is that aprg is defined first and foremost by gear. best gear will always be > skill with shitty gear. second, arpg is defined by skills, and to be fair, poe has few mechanically different skills that would require actual skill, be that of reaction time, tactical approach or anything of sort. and again- players wanna kill mobs and watch tv while playing, so thats that. Dernière édition par grepman#2451, le 23 mai 2016 à 22:44:51
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" Excellent idea, I'd be happy to see this. | |
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@grepman: Dark Souls is an ARPG. It is, rather deliberately, NOT a fast paced one, putting perhaps excessive emphasis on telegraphing, but it's still got all the pieces.
Telegraphing isn't a mandatory component for skill. I don't know if you've played Hearthstone or not, but relying exclusively on telegraphing is kind of like saying cards like Leper Gnome or Fireball or Wolfrider are just inherently bad design. It's okay for an action game to set up "chip damage" situations which must be managed. (Hence a non-telegraphed attack in an ARPG is equivalent to one turn, a telegraphed attack two or more turns.) I kinda doubt you can play Dark Souls watching TV, however. @Ceri: Of course I agree and have agreed since well before this thread. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Dernière édition par ScrotieMcB#2697, le 23 mai 2016 à 23:05:24
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" And because of the heavy emphasis on telegraphing, one skilled enough in that department can go through the whole game with just a sword, a shield, and no points allocated. Wish it can be the same for PoE, but the game heavily emphasis on mechanics that to conquer them, one must be skilled to counter the mechanics......with mechanics itself to offset those mechanics. :P Sometimes you can take the game out of the garage but you can't take the garage out of the game.
- raics, 06.08.2016 |
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" I dont consider dark souls an arpg. to prevent semantics argument, lets just say when I say ARPG I mean 'diablo-like isometric arpgs that are loot-driven and dont have focus on intricate combat' dark souls is a heavily combat-oriented linear rpg that doesnt have much roleplaying, and is based on the 'defeat next boss x' mechanic in which you basically run from one creative fight where enemy has different movesets, to another dark souls is literally built around those [mostly]duels. " I didnt mean a telegraphed attack, I meant player skills (such as, whirling blades) being instrumental in avoiding something, and the other way around. GGG keeps on adding new skills to the game some of which make it to enemies arsenal as well, but there are only few specifically different ones in terms of being avoid or dodge, or somehow skillfully react. for example, a charging mob is one. a ranged mob is another. the earthquake enemies are quite good, in fact. but in general, its lacking, and its a testament of how difficult it is to make such attacks in an arpg (again, my definition) game, which are about killing hordes in seconds. Dernière édition par grepman#2451, le 23 mai 2016 à 23:35:14
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Although I can kinda see the argument for different genres, I'd argue Souls games would be more deserving of the title "Action RPG." Murdering hordes of mobs in seconds isn't really action, but the illusion thereof. Unless by "action" we just mean "starring explosions and directed by JJ Abrams."
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Dernière édition par ScrotieMcB#2697, le 23 mai 2016 à 23:58:16
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