Sooo, when will Immortal Call become a warcry?

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Pwnzors87 a écrit :

I would rather change cwdt, because right now i dont see a reason to not put it in each off-Piece of gear. Most movement skills suck, espazialy for 2handers and you are almost equaly fast by just using a flask. With ascendancy we got global leach, cwdt makes you litarly immortal most of the time.
And it´s stupid that lvling it isnt always good.

Don´t overrate immortal call, endurance charges aren´t that easy to generate unless OP Amulett.

Blasphemy + Warlord's mark = easy endurance charge generation. =]

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goetzjam a écrit :

CWDT\IC is useless though without the end person getting charges, so to remove it is just the opposite of the direction the game has been going in terms of "automating" stuff the player wants to do but is too annoyed to do.

Right, and all these people using it are wasting sockets. The player doesn't exactly want to do it, and the player usually doesn't need to do it. The player wants to build himself a nice, fancy glass cannon as is the current fad, and CwDT IC is a cheap, cheesy way to get around sudden damage bursts glass cannons are particularly susceptible to.

No idea when the game went from 'forget about playing a glass cannon' to 'play whatever you want, you can kill them before they even lay a finger and even if they do get lucky here's a three socket panacea'.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Cast when stunned was flawed since its introduction, no one wants to get stunned, ever. People go out of the way to achieve that immunity and ascendancy has made it even easier to avoid getting stunned.

I percentage killed the gem on arrival, if it was 100% it would be used a lot more. We try our best to prevent it but stuns do happen. Still, I see no lobbying to fix the gem, nobody cares.

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goetzjam a écrit :

CWDT\IC isn't a crutch, if you don't level it its next to useless, but if you do level it, at least a bit it becomes more rewarding and its only rewarding enough if you have the endurance charges, ideally more then just the default 3. To say otherwise I think I would have to question your knowledge and experience then, especially in higher level maps.

Do your own study then, find out how many people are just slapping the combo on and forgetting about it, like I said in the first post, I'd just love to see some stats.

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goetzjam a écrit :

The issue with it being a warcry is the cooldown periods in which you can use it, your suggestion isn't logical in that people can't IC if they have enduring cried recently or used any of the cries for that matter, not only that it really doesn't fit the theme of the gem.

Exactly. A character that invests in endurance charges maintains them, enduring cry is a prep skill, not an 'oh shit' skill. Besides, I'd just love to see the Warbringer passive good, currently it's crap.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Following that logic all trigger gems should be removed, including cast on crit and we all very well know that isn't going anywhere, SC players love that shit too much.

All those HC Trickster Fakeners say otherwise :^).

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raics a écrit :

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goetzjam a écrit :

CWDT\IC is useless though without the end person getting charges, so to remove it is just the opposite of the direction the game has been going in terms of "automating" stuff the player wants to do but is too annoyed to do.

Right, and all these people using it are wasting sockets. The player doesn't exactly want to do it, and the player usually doesn't need to do it. The player wants to build himself a nice, fancy glass cannon as is the current fad, and CwDT IC is a cheap, cheesy way to get around sudden damage bursts glass cannons are particularly susceptible to.

No idea when the game went from 'forget about playing a glass cannon' to 'play whatever you want, you can kill them before they even lay a finger and even if they do get lucky here's a three socket panacea'.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Cast when stunned was flawed since its introduction, no one wants to get stunned, ever. People go out of the way to achieve that immunity and ascendancy has made it even easier to avoid getting stunned.

I percentage killed the gem on arrival, if it was 100% it would be used a lot more. We try our best to prevent it but stuns do happen. Still, I see no lobbying to fix the gem, nobody cares.

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goetzjam a écrit :

CWDT\IC isn't a crutch, if you don't level it its next to useless, but if you do level it, at least a bit it becomes more rewarding and its only rewarding enough if you have the endurance charges, ideally more then just the default 3. To say otherwise I think I would have to question your knowledge and experience then, especially in higher level maps.

Do your own study then, find out how many people are just slapping the combo on and forgetting about it, like I said in the first post, I'd just love to see some stats.

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goetzjam a écrit :

The issue with it being a warcry is the cooldown periods in which you can use it, your suggestion isn't logical in that people can't IC if they have enduring cried recently or used any of the cries for that matter, not only that it really doesn't fit the theme of the gem.

Exactly. A character that invests in endurance charges maintains them, enduring cry is a prep skill, not an 'oh shit' skill. Besides, I'd just love to see the Warbringer passive good, currently it's crap.

I've made various builds without using CWDT, I know that people make builds without it as well if they have to run a lot of auras or utility skills, they don't have the luxury to do it. Or choose to use vaal skills instead.

The game left the glass cannon mark when GGG made it so easy to do builds that don't have issues with reflect, thats not saying lots of builds still have issues with reflect, but if they can't damage you then CWDT is mainly pointless. This is further increased by issues that aren't necessary the main focus of this thread, like the change to making XP efficiency be like speed running t10-11s instead of doing harder red maps.



You don't see anyone wanting cast when stunned changed, because quite frankly you aren't going to make a build out if it, about the best you can do is something cheesy with PvP or a grandmaster character, not that great IMO. It literally, even if it was 100% would still be shit.


All trigger gems are setup in a way where you slap it on and forget about it, thats why they are there, to trigger under circumstances, if people don't level it at least a bit they are just using it "wrong' or likely not optimally. If they don't get quality on increased duration or consider using molten shell with it, then they lose out on potentially more mitigation.

I actually loved the showcase that CWDT did when they showed it for 1.0, it was all of these things that were annoying to try and deal with because it just slowed you down and things that used socket space that back then had even more pressure then now (because of all the vaal skills and such)


One passive for a specific class in order to make this change justified, sorry but no the game must not have changes to a defensive option like that just because 1 class can mitigate the downside of shared cooldowns "better". If warbringer is shitty it needs adjustments of its own.

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All those HC Trickster Fakeners say otherwise :^).

Yes what a total of 1% of the HC population plays coc trickster when the likelyhood of SC players is what 10 or more times that.

Immunity is such a bad thing to ever introduce in a game, at least there is a price to pay for chaos immunity.

It is also completely counter intuitive to use immortal call on a high endurance character imo since if you put it on CWDT and get hit by 2 big elemental hits in short span of time you wasted all those charges and physical reduction and self casting would need it's cast time reduced to that of blood rage for it to matter.

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goetzjam a écrit :

I actually loved the showcase that CWDT did when they showed it for 1.0, it was all of these things that were annoying to try and deal with because it just slowed you down and things that used socket space that back then had even more pressure then now (because of all the vaal skills and such)

Right, I understand. I think too much automatization is bad for the game and you happen to like it, that's all well and good but it leaves little room for any kind of consensus if we disagree on base level. Fortunately, we don't even have to, this is a highly controversial development point so universal agreement would be too much to ask for.

By the way, I also hated Reave rework, never used the skill again after that.

And here I thought that inversing the CwDT model would be the better bet.....

Start with it taking 3272 damage to trigger and as it levels make it more efficient in that sense....but it takes more strength to be able to level it up and support it. Seems fair and more along the lines of the current CoC (which admittedly could use some work) that gains chance to cast as it levels.

Its more of a cheese for range than melee, melee actually need it, like fortify. Meanwhile range just keeps on getting stronger.


Normally id say its bad to have immunity but POEs monster damage is out of control to begin with, especially physical hits.

Just make "Cast On Melee Kill" into "Warcry on Melee Kill," then IC can be a Warcry.

Obviously so that you can use Enduring Cry then Immortal Call immediately afterwards, never.