Sooo, when will Immortal Call become a warcry?

It really isn't logical, IC is one of the only things keeping cwdt relevant, even then its significantly worst then it was in the past, it relies on you to get the charges to make it useful really in any way.

If this was pre the warcry change and EC still worked with cwdt I would have preferred IC to be the one to manually cast, but its kinda too late for that.

Build even around triggers is one of the features that makes poe nice to build around, i think that's intended and i don't want that to change.

I think IC should remain a spell, but the skill changed to:
100% increased duration per Endurance Charge (flat, does not increase with level)
0.3s base duration at level 1
0.5s base duration at level 21

This means a level 3 IC would have 0.32s duration (20% nerf), level 4 0.33s, etc.

320/528=0.606
330/583=0.566 (6.6% less efficiency than previous level)
340/661=0.514 (9.2% less efficiency than previous level)

Leveling CWDT would still decrease your overall efficiency per point of Damage, but we are talking about a cooldown skill here, so CWDT levels higher than 1 would actually be worth some consideration, even with a lower duration per damage taken ratio. A level 10 IC (for 0.4s base duration) would require a level 8 CWDT, which is 1107 damage taken.

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goetzjam a écrit :

It really isn't logical, IC is one of the only things keeping cwdt relevant, even then its significantly worst then it was in the past, it relies on you to get the charges to make it useful really in any way.

What's wrong with that? Nobody gives a crap that curse on hit is less relevant now because we got another option in Blasphemy and nobody gave a shit about cast on stun from the start because CwDT was a much better option. I must have missed the fine print on character creation that says 'must use CwDT'.

Devs won't address core issue while we're satisfied with bandaids, and why wold they? CwDT IC is a good example of a crutch measure that overstayed its welcome, it should have went the same road CwDT EC did.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

I think IC should remain a spell, but the skill changed to:
100% increased duration per Endurance Charge (flat, does not increase with level)
0.3s base duration at level 1
0.5s base duration at level 21

I think it's better to just uproot the whole thing than having people trying to use it and complaining it doesn't work as well or at all, the playerbase generally had an easier time accepting clean breaks with certain mechanics than nerfs.

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raics a écrit :

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

I think IC should remain a spell, but the skill changed to:
100% increased duration per Endurance Charge (flat, does not increase with level)
0.3s base duration at level 1
0.5s base duration at level 21

I think it's better to just uproot the whole thing than having people trying to use it and complaining it doesn't work as well or at all, the playerbase generally had an easier time accepting clean breaks with certain mechanics than nerfs.

It's an opportunity cost thing. What you're talking about would require a complete rework of how enemy physical damage works in the game. My suggestion wouldn't require enemy damage retuning, and although CWDT IC would still be prevalent, there would at least be more meaningful choice in the CWDT part.

As far as your suggestion goes, I'd rather GGG just make a note somewhere: no IC in Path of Exile 2, when (if) they get around to making it.

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raics a écrit :

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goetzjam a écrit :

It really isn't logical, IC is one of the only things keeping cwdt relevant, even then its significantly worst then it was in the past, it relies on you to get the charges to make it useful really in any way.

What's wrong with that? Nobody gives a crap that curse on hit is less relevant now because we got another option in Blasphemy and nobody gave a shit about cast on stun from the start because CwDT was a much better option. I must have missed the fine print on character creation that says 'must use CwDT'.

Devs won't address core issue while we're satisfied with bandaids, and why wold they? CwDT IC is a good example of a crutch measure that overstayed its welcome, it should have went the same road CwDT EC did.

"

ScrotieMcB a écrit :

I think IC should remain a spell, but the skill changed to:
100% increased duration per Endurance Charge (flat, does not increase with level)
0.3s base duration at level 1
0.5s base duration at level 21

I think it's better to just uproot the whole thing than having people trying to use it and complaining it doesn't work as well or at all, the playerbase generally had an easier time accepting clean breaks with certain mechanics than nerfs.

CWDT\IC is useless though without the end person getting charges, so to remove it is just the opposite of the direction the game has been going in terms of "automating" stuff the player wants to do but is too annoyed to do. If CWDT EC was around then forcing a user to cast IC as a reactionary measurement is fine, but for builds that lack physical mitigation but solve the endurance charge issue one way or another, rewarding them for further investing into the defensive options they have is a good thing.

In terms of no one caring about cure on hit, you are very wrong. If you are playing solo blasphemy is good, in a party it becomes redundant and is overall "expensive" curse on hit is the better support option 100% and using the curse on hit gem nets the best results when focused on curses\effectiveness.

Cast when stunned was flawed since its introduction, no one wants to get stunned, ever. People go out of the way to achieve that immunity and ascendancy has made it even easier to avoid getting stunned.


CWDT\IC isn't a crutch, if you don't level it its next to useless, but if you do level it, at least a bit it becomes more rewarding and its only rewarding enough if you have the endurance charges, ideally more then just the default 3. To say otherwise I think I would have to question your knowledge and experience then, especially in higher level maps.


The issue with it being a warcry is the cooldown periods in which you can use it, your suggestion isn't logical in that people can't IC if they have enduring cried recently or used any of the cries for that matter, not only that it really doesn't fit the theme of the gem.

I don't think there is really anything else to discuss at this point, the only thing you've mentioned here of merit is "crutch" but you haven't addressed the whole fact that it doesn't fit for it to be a cry, plus the issues of overlapping cries.

CWDT has always been a weird bird to me.

Why not just sure up player defenses without "auto-cast burst mitigation".

Warcrys make sense to me because they are player initiated (i.e. preventative)...CWDT-IC seems like a mechanic that is both annoying for developers to balance around and annoying for players to consume/understand.

I know when I first explained CWDT to a friend, the first question he asked me is "Why not just give us higher base armor or something...why do I have to "waste" a set of sockets on my boots for this?"

I didn't really have an answer to that...but there are some enemy mechanics in this game that do seem like they were made as such to balance around CWDT-IC. To name a few would be large offscreen rhoa packs that charge at you at once...or devours that surround you and swing all at one time.

It just seems weird that the developers would want to keep something like this in that is more of a pain to code around for them than it is for us to use it.

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Prisus a écrit :

CWDT has always been a weird bird to me.

Why not just sure up player defenses without "auto-cast burst mitigation".

Warcrys make sense to me because they are player initiated (i.e. preventative)...CWDT-IC seems like a mechanic that is both annoying for developers to balance around and annoying for players to consume/understand.

I know when I first explained CWDT to a friend, the first question he asked me is "Why not just give us higher base armor or something...why do I have to "waste" a set of sockets on my boots for this?"

I didn't really have an answer to that...but there are some enemy mechanics in this game that do seem like they were made as such to balance around CWDT-IC. To name a few would be large offscreen rhoa packs that charge at you at once...or devours that surround you and swing all at one time.

It just seems weird that the developers would want to keep something like this in that is more of a pain to code around for them than it is for us to use it.

Following that logic all trigger gems should be removed, including cast on crit and we all very well know that isn't going anywhere, SC players love that shit too much.

I would rather change cwdt, because right now i dont see a reason to not put it in each off-Piece of gear. Most movement skills suck, espazialy for 2handers and you are almost equaly fast by just using a flask. With ascendancy we got global leach, cwdt makes you litarly immortal most of the time.
And it´s stupid that lvling it isnt always good.

Don´t overrate immortal call, endurance charges aren´t that easy to generate unless OP Amulett.

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goetzjam a écrit :

Following that logic all trigger gems should be removed, including cast on crit and we all very well know that isn't going anywhere, SC players love that shit too much.

Not exactly. I think offensive and defensive triggers naturally make them polar in their similarities. The big difference between CWDT and Cast on CRit is that CWDT is auto-triggered when you are hit, where as CoC is purposefully linked and triggered when the player hits something.

I dunno...feels very different.