Realistically how bad are the counter attack gems going to be?

"

zbouby25 a écrit :

Those gems are designed for pvp, that's it

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NickK_GGG a écrit :

Riposte*: 60% less damage in PvP, and 2 hits per time, so T divided by 2.
Reckoning*: 40% less damage in PvP.
Vengeance*: 40% less damage in PvP.

mhm....I can see that they made pvp gems, only to nerf their damage by half for pvp ;) makes sense

"

morbo a écrit :

* CWDT setup
* Aura setup
* Movement setup (LW, leap slam, etc)
* and now Counter attack setup

What remains is that 5L or 6L 1-skill spam. These gems are further nailing the coffin of PoE's 'one dimensional' combat.

I remember a thread from OB, where we were arguing for more skill bar slots... lol

6L main attack
4L CWDT EC, IC
4L Aura
4L Main attack 2/Counter attack
3L CWDT2/Aura2/Movement skill
3L Counter Attack

I guess you can fiddle it in somewhere and still have all you had before, including some luxury like a second CWDT/Aura setup.

In my current builds, I have the luxury to run not only two sets of auras, but also two CWDT setups.
Counterattacks are basically CWDT setups, so I can easily make a swap here if they prove to be worth it.

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yotmato a écrit :

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Boem a écrit :

"

LimitedRooster a écrit :

Oh and the counter attack gems are going to be 68% bad. Either they'll not be worth the cost, which is bad, they'll be worth the cost but inherently boring to use which is bad, or they'll be too powerful so they'll be mandatory so they'll be bad.

Imo this sums it up pretty aptly.

There is very little room for these gems to be innovative. We don't have any link's left with a regular melee build and they are already under-performing, who in there right mind is going to link this in there gear for some "% luck creativity"
(thinking about MoM + counter attack skill and mana leach for example, there is simply no room left in a melee build to do this without sacrifices and god knows we cant sacrifice anymore with melee's)

Peace,

-Boem-

"Ranged" builds are running HoT with CoH/Blind/Etc setups, sometimes even in 5 links.

Now think about it for a second, a skill gem that hits mobs automatically and has no obvious links at first, sounds familiar?

.....

Keep thinking, you are almost there buddy

And dont give me the "theres no space for more gems in my gear", people said the same about the heralds, yet people are 5linking them as i said, in some cases.

Peace,

-Yotmato-

Yes mate your very right, who needs there survive ability links anyway on a melee char.

Ill be swapping that in for a %based counter-attack for sure.

Also congratz on bringing in a "ranged set-up" in a melee specific topic to use as an argument, tips-hat.

Well done.

I am pretty sure people will use these skills, some might even build around them, that's not even what we are discussing here.

The question is, will it be effective and if so, will it be more effective then the options we already have?

The short answer with the information we have now, is no, twist that in any way you want.

Peace,

-Boem-

Vengeance - Blind - Curse on Hit - Enfeeble/whatever

Boom, you now have an insane defensive setup for melees that wasnt possible this patch.

You are welcome.

Before people compare with CWDT, i'll list the differences:

CWDT cant blind.
CWDT Enfeeble its usually done with a low level enfeeble that only hits specific mobs due to very low radius.
With vengeance you can run a high level enfeeble buffed by CoH, that is guaranteed to hit every mob around you. With some weapon range and/or AoE you can potentially blind and enfeeble entire screens for free. I see this as a huge buff to cast on melee kill or melee in general builds tbh.

Does anyone else thinks vengeance is going to be insanely strong or am i alone here.


Peace,

-Yotmato-

Shockwave totem + CoH + enfeeble + blind says hello.

It doesn't require to get hit.

It doesn't rely on chance.

It can be manually placed to increase EHP (knockback) and be strategically utilized.

It doesn't have level restrictions like cwdt has.

It has the same downside as the counter-attack gems, your wasting time putting it up instead of just killing the fuckers outright and increasing EHP overall in that way.

Nothing was added that could not have been done before.

Peace,

-Boem-

who the fuck is going to use shockwave totem with a melee build just to do that? You probably wont even have the mana to cast it, how can you compare that to automated mana-free blind/enfeeble LOL. That is like the worst possible counter-argument you could have made.

Peace,

-Yotmato-

"

yotmato a écrit :

who the fuck is going to use shockwave totem with a melee build just to do that? You probably wont even have the mana to cast it, how can you compare that to automated mana-free blind/enfeeble LOL. That is like the worst possible counter-argument you could have made.

Peace,

-Yotmato-

And with that post, i am done with you, have fun mate :).

Peace,

-Boem-

Sweet! My Block based Molten Striker plans just got more interesting with the new Gems, that along with the new stuff on the tree has me itching to start, can't wait to check em out.

They do not seem bad to me at all, but I guess the proof is in the pudding once we actually get to use them. :)

"

Boem a écrit :

"

yotmato a écrit :

who the fuck is going to use shockwave totem with a melee build just to do that? You probably wont even have the mana to cast it, how can you compare that to automated mana-free blind/enfeeble LOL. That is like the worst possible counter-argument you could have made.

Peace,

-Yotmato-

And with that post, i am done with you, have fun mate :).

Peace,

-Boem-

ROFL, feels good to shut you up, nice arguments there buddy, shockwave totem R O F L

And to all the other depressing doomsayers, please WAIT at least for the patch to hit, before dumping all this gems in the trashcan, alright? You are depressingly boring

Peace,

-Yotmato-

"

yotmato a écrit :

"

Boem a écrit :

"

yotmato a écrit :

who the fuck is going to use shockwave totem with a melee build just to do that? You probably wont even have the mana to cast it, how can you compare that to automated mana-free blind/enfeeble LOL. That is like the worst possible counter-argument you could have made.

Peace,

-Yotmato-

And with that post, i am done with you, have fun mate :).

Peace,

-Boem-

ROFL, feels good to shut you up, nice arguments there buddy, shockwave totem R O F L

And to all the other depressing doomsayers, please WAIT at least for the patch to hit, before dumping all this gems in the trashcan, alright? You are depressingly boring

Peace,

-Yotmato-

My shockwave totem suggestion is completely viable and a solid argument.

Your dismissal of it without a solid base to do so shows me that you are grasping at straws. That's why i will let you be :).

No mana to cast it? That's not an argument, since it can be done. (+1 straw for you)

automated/proq based/get hit skills as a good thing for this games future on melee character, i don't even have to say anything about that.

Free cost mana counter-attack gems, you must be a wizard or an alpha member.

Aoe counter gems , again either a wizard or an alpha member.

Peace,

-Boem-

(also, cool edit lel)

edit : just to say, you haven't invalidated my argument in any way. Putting LOL behind a sentence doesn't invalidate it.