Feedback: RNG rerolling is not crafting, discuss

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

If you're going to make that particular criticism of me, it would behoove you not to quote yourself; it reveals your hypocrisy.

You say "Things are always sold at or above cost" = delusional belief that all business are profitable and thus is too separated from reality for me to work with
You say businesses "routinely" sell at or above cost = reasonable belief that the business which fail to be profitable eventually cease to exist, thus something I can work with

Do you see the difference?

In short, unlike real life, gambling has thrown against it a large list of factors which cause businesses to fail. It's similar to a small business which gets crushed by a new Walmart, unable to compete against such a juggernaut. The root cause is the nature of gear upgrades themselves — the fact you can only wear one chest or one helm at a time. This cause is too fundamental to the core of PoE to ever be removed; thus, the Thrift Shop Rule will always be in effect in this game.

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

See the problem here is you don't understand how cost works. You proclaim yourself as some expert in economy but you simply fail to grasp what cost is.

NOBODY SELLS BELOW COST as a standard business practice. This is a fucking fact of life you will have to deal with.

If your business is routinely selling below cost you shut down because you aren't profitable. It's literally that fucking simple. Until you grasp this basic concept and what cost actually MEANS, you cannot participate in a logical debate with anyone about economy, ever. And once again, you are wasting everyone's time with your lack of simple, basic understanding, poisoning the otherwise-useful feedback forums with pointless nonsense.

Also, if you're going to attempt to debate with my by using one post that says "always" and another that says "routinely" and calling it hypocrisy when every 3 year old idiot under the sun can tell you what I clearly meant in those posts, I don't know that there is much hope for you.

It's really, really, abundantly obviously clear that you have some serious issues with actual logic and I'd honestly appreciate it if you just stopped flooding the forums with the irrelevant scrotie posts that never make any sense at all. I'm getting really tired of having to go through each of your posts and explain why you're wrong when any two year old should have no trouble getting it.


Ironically, you're the one who brought up wal-mart as an example, and wal mart has been around long enough for anyone to agree they don't sell below cost.

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

Because they can spend time playing to make up the difference.

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Veruski a écrit :

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

Because they can spend time playing to make up the difference.

this argument works for real life economics as well, as long as you value your time at zero.

and likewise, it doesn't work for video games at all, if you don't value your time at zero.

eg, i could open up a real-world muffin shop, that operates at a loss.

during the hours the shop is closed, i could work another job to accumulate money to support my money-losing muffin shop.

as long as i value the time working outside of the muffin shop to be worth zero, it's a perfectly valid (by your logic) way to sustain the muffin shop

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Veruski a écrit :

That's true in real life as well.

If you buy something, and no longer use it, it's better to sell it at a loss than it is to let it collect dust unused.

That's still a form of minimizing loss.

The other guy's CORRECT point was that, if you are constantly running at a % loss relative to your earnings, you will definitely run out of currency and be poor.

Not too complex a point. And yes, this is also true for video games, as well as real life.

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MortalKombat3 a écrit :

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

See the problem here is you don't understand how cost works. You proclaim yourself as some expert in economy but you simply fail to grasp what cost is.

NOBODY SELLS BELOW COST as a standard business practice. This is a fucking fact of life you will have to deal with.

If your business is routinely selling below cost you shut down because you aren't profitable. It's literally that fucking simple. Until you grasp this basic concept and what cost actually MEANS, you cannot participate in a logical debate with anyone about economy, ever. And once again, you are wasting everyone's time with your lack of simple, basic understanding, poisoning the otherwise-useful feedback forums with pointless nonsense.

Also, if you're going to attempt to debate with my by using one post that says "always" and another that says "routinely" and calling it hypocrisy when every 3 year old idiot under the sun can tell you what I clearly meant in those posts, I don't know that there is much hope for you.

It's really, really, abundantly obviously clear that you have some serious issues with actual logic and I'd honestly appreciate it if you just stopped flooding the forums with the irrelevant scrotie posts that never make any sense at all. I'm getting really tired of having to go through each of your posts and explain why you're wrong when any two year old should have no trouble getting it.


Ironically, you're the one who brought up wal-mart as an example, and wal mart has been around long enough for anyone to agree they don't sell below cost.

Generally, you're right, but not completely. When an item drops, its cost for you is actually less than 1 alteration orb (vendor price). So, selling it for anything above that will make some profit (obviously, most players wont bother selling items for 2 alts, but still..)
But when you craft an item, it costs much more for you.
So, your statement applies only to items, that are mainly crafted, not found. For example, 6-linked uniques chests. Odds to find a 6-linked unique are almost negligible, yes there are quite a lot of those on market. Why? Because they are in high demand, so players try to craft them (6-L an existing unique). Those, obviously, will not sold under price (unless you found some lucky dumbass).

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Legatus1982 a écrit :

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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SL4Y3R a écrit :

Trading will ALWAYS* be better. There's nothing wrong with that concept. The degree to which its better is one thing, but it will and should be better.

I don't know if I'd go so far as saying "there's nothing wrong with the concept," because it does cause problems on occasion. But yes, trading will always be better.

Now that I think about it, some of the newer forumers here might not be familiar with the Thrift Shop Law, so I should probably restate something from several months ago.



This is an inviolate economic law. It is immutable. No matter how much we buff orbs, even if we tripled the droprate and doubled the chance for "top tier" orb effects... it would still be cheaper on average to trade for the thing than craft it yourself.

Why? It's not rocket science. If you can craft it for an average cost of X, then a price greater than or equal to X simply won't draw customers. If the seller doesn't charge less than X, it'll just sit in the stash. So sellers undercut, and charge less than X.

1. Things are always sold at or above cost, never below cost irl. Your entire argument is hilarious since it changes this fact conveniently for your case. You should at least know real economics before you try to apply them to a videogame
2. To further re-iterate the fact that poe is a videogame and not a real economy, see the post where Chris_GGG talks about how they tried the orb drop test (which was a terribly obvious non-study, but whatever)

But hey, keep on believing that GGG can't change the economy in their own videogame when they are God here. I mean, we can't just introduce BoP in this game, right?

TLDR: no offense but you and the others trying to talk about economics in this videogame have no clue what you're talking about