Feedback: RNG rerolling is not crafting, discuss

Of course you can play this game with a "net loss" approach.

Examples:

I don't stash most low level uniques, I vendor them. Get at best 1/2 alch.
If I happen to need one, I buy it for 1 chaos.
If I don't need it any more, I vendor it again, I rarely bother to sell stuff below 5 chaos.
-> traded a chaos for an alch, which is a loss, but I saved stash and time and didn't have to do too much "economy" (iE entering the game with a ladder char to try to sell stuff, trade chat etc). That's basically like "renting" the item.

If I buy a rare item, I will pay what the other wants.
If I don't need it any more, I will put it in my shop for about the same price (if it's a 5+ chaos item, otherwise I vendor it).
If someone wants it but offers slightly less, who cares? Take it, have fun with it.
If nobody wants it, I vendor it.
-> Again, net loss.


I'm still getting richer and richer, mostly because of "lucky drops" (like multi-exalt uniques) and the chaos recipe.
I'm just not getting richer as fast as if I tried to play the market game to perfection, but why should I?

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And I feel ashamed for people who do. Like when i see people trying to sell wurm's molt for 10 chaos, 200 Dps Swords for 4 Exalts or rings like...

+24% lightning resist
---
+30 life
+18% cold resist
+30% fire resist
2% damage leeched as life

...for 2+ Exalts, purely hoping they find someone stupid enough, and/or too stupid themselves to see they are wasting their time.

if you're getting richer and richer, you aren't running at a net loss

lol

derp

"

Veruski a écrit :

if you're getting richer and richer, you aren't running at a net loss

lol

derp

I'm definetly running the "Sell to Player, buy from Player" game at a loss, when it comes down to the single item.
Like buying "Saffell's" for 15 chaos, selling it for 11.

I win overall, because I find and sell more items than I buy.

"

Short answer: You say RNG is bad; I say that's a silly thing to believe, because RNG is good. For a longer answer, I think I'm going to make a new thread in General Discussion.

You are drawing the wrong conclusions. I am saying options are good.

Anyway i made a post for you in your GD thread.

Peace,

-Boem-

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Peterlerock a écrit :

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Veruski a écrit :

if you're getting richer and richer, you aren't running at a net loss

lol

derp

I'm definetly running the "Sell to Player, buy from Player" game at a loss, when it comes down to the single item.
Like buying "Saffell's" for 15 chaos, selling it for 11.

I win overall, because I find and sell more items than I buy.

if you are finding more and selling more, you are running at a net positive, not a net loss.

see my post on the previous page talking about capital ;)

Captain Obvious?

Everybody is having a "net positive" simply by playing the game.
You start with zero items, and if you only pick up a single white item, you already have your "net positive".

But that's not the point.

Point I was trying to make:
You can totally play the "market game" in PoE unefficient (buying the same stuff for more than you sell it for, or only buying and vendoring it, not selling), and still be fine.

This was an answer to:

"

NOBODY SELLS BELOW COST as a standard business practice. This is a fucking fact of life you will have to deal with.

I do, in this game, because other than in real life, treasures just appear out of nowhere all day.
So I sell "below value" to save time.

you need to read my post on the previous page =(

and btw, if you have ever worked in a manufacturing environment IRL, "treasure" appears somewhat out-of-nowhere there, as well.

well, not "out of nowhere," but you can turn raw material into valuable products at a pretty tremendous pace.

and in that same situation, you could also have poor business practices and still make some decent money, as long as you were producing enough product.

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Peterlerock a écrit :

You start with zero items, and if you only pick up a single white item, you already have your "net positive".

this isn't true

compare to real world argument: you start with nothing but the skin on your back. if you ever own any one thing ever, then clearly you run at a net positive IRL, because you were born with nothing!

Shit logic.

[Removed by Support]

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Veruski a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

it has EVERYTHING to do with the discussion

no dude it has literally zilch to do with the discussion

it's a form of derailment and it's circular logic. it goes something like this:

"you can trade instead of craft, therefore it's irrelevant how good or bad crafting is, because trading will always be cheaper. therefore, the crafting system is already perfect and it's fine that it is shitty and the orbs are basically unusable."

what a shitty, irrelevant argument.

I never said crafting system is perfect.
but yes, the crafting is irrelevant because of it being about trade. so is drop rates, theyre never going up as long as its a mmo-like ARPG. you can get mad about all you want but its not going to change that fact.

a game based around trading and grinding will never give you great options to craft. you failed to name a single ARPG game based on grouping, trading and grinding that has a great craft system for endgame, without making items BoA. its because such game does not exist.

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a recipe would be zero variance, which is a very different concept than less variance. i know it's hard for some people to distinguish between concept like "less" and "zero," but you should at least try.

in fact, I mentioned the variance range and how it is still boils to a guaranteed amount. maybe instead of being condescending smart ass you should you up your reading comprehension skills ?

"

you could make this dumb, irrelevant argument about anything. most words are subjective to some degree. however, most people would say eating is enjoyable. probably fucking as well. humans in general find eating and fucking enjoyable. are you going to debate that, as well?

maybe some people find bashing their head against a cement wall to be more enjoyable than fucking. who knows.

this made no sense

you trying to speak in general terms is why I said its subjective.
I like RNG and what you say is enjoyable
your opinion is no way any better than any other opinion , and no amount of condescending bullshit posts will change that. no matter how mad you are.

I ENJOY RNG. and for me that variance is part of the reason I like the game. I dont enjoy bullshit guaranteed recipe of 'grind 3k boars and buy the item in the armor shop'

thus, its subjective. my opinion is as good as yours.

also, in case its still not understood

my point there's currently (at moment no self-found league) zero reason for GGG to invest time in developing a balanced crafting, guarantee-based system, because of trade and economic implications.

this precious time (because with trade each recipe item has to be super balanced, much more so than any unique there is) is MUCH better spent on other stuff.

the system is far from perfect but its NOT WORTH IT to tinker with it.

the fuses/offcolor problem is binary. if you reduce variance and have a guaranteed range (ie 4-6k fuses) it becomes a guarantee.

but ironically, in no way does this address anything in a system where you can simply trade for an item with zero variance.

the only way where good, amazing craft system would make a difference is in a vacuum, singple player, self found league or legacy hardcore league (ha)