does GGG even ban RMTers

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RandallMourn a écrit :

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Craeburn a écrit :

Sir's. What does RMT even stand for?

Real Money Transactions

Real Meow Transactions.

Way more people trade Items for Real Cat Pictures than they do for Real Money.

Guys, remember that you need RMTers to buy your multi-exalt shit on your expensive shops ; only bots can turn enough rocks in fellshrine to drop those :)

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Bars a écrit :

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knac84 a écrit :

unless you are willing to invest an unreal number of hours most people can't, if you want to keep building your character (and xp'ing) beyond act 3 merciless, you are pretty much forced to interact with other players. And so, RMT/FG will affect you, whether you admit it or not.

This is simply not true. First of all, there are players who are succesfully playing in endgame HC self-found. ...

Read again what you quoted, before the bold text: "unless you are willing to invest an unreal number of hours most people can't". Off course, in a grinding game, with enough time you will be able to achieve almost anything (almost, cause there are so many RNG gates that some stuff may be impossible in a lifetime if you completely played solo under the current paradigm). Ok is pretty easy to get to circa 70 maps and sustain w/o trading at all. But at some point you are going to hit a wall (a wall, with time you can bypass, but we are talking about relatively to a player who does not play completely isolated from the rest of players). The wall can be made easier with trading, and that's how GGG has aknowledged it to be (and is intended by design, that way).

You can rise all sort of artificial rules to make the game "harder" or "longer" for you if you will, like using blue gear or playing completely solo. Everyone is free to choose how to play, but is not how GGG has designed the game and we have to argue about the 'common case', that is, when you interact with other players to progress through the game. Being interested at 'character building', a lot of people will try to minimize the time investment by trading and all that, the cheats will do using RMT/FG.

And in the process it will affect you, either if you acknowledge it or don't. The primary way it affects you is by devaluing your own in-game effort and time investment. Maybe you don't give a crap about that, but free gaming time (and time in general) being valuable to me, and time being the most precious commodity any human being has, I get pissed off about this shit (specially when we are talking about free time, gaming, which is supposed to avoid the same shit we have to deal with IRL on daily basis, btw something a lot of devs nowadays have forgot, we don't play to recreate RL in games).

BTW, it affects everything, including the value of rare items you may sell, the value of currency you find, and the effort you have to do achieving whatever you want to achieve all compared to your relative time investment and that of others, but in the end it's all about the value of your own effort and time, and it indeed affects how fun you perceive a game to be. If you perceive that developer doesn't give a crap about your effort, and this is made worse because external influences (botting, MBoxing, RMT'ing, etc.) are devaluing your effort, you are going to enjoy the game less in the long run (and then comes the rage, the quitting, the abandoning, and in the end, the lack of income).

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knac84 a écrit :

Read again what you quoted, before the bold text: "unless you are willing to invest an unreal number of hours most people can't". Off course, in a grinding game, with enough time you will be able to achieve almost anything (almost, cause there are so many RNG gates that some stuff may be impossible in a lifetime if you completely played solo under the current paradigm). Ok is pretty easy to get to circa 70 maps and sustain w/o trading at all. But at some point you are going to hit a wall (a wall, with time you can bypass, but we are talking about relatively to a player who does not play completely isolated from the rest of players). The wall can be made easier with trading, and that's how GGG has aknowledged it to be (and is intended by design, that way).

I'm still not convinced there is a wall if one's build and gameplay are good enough. I might be wrong as I am relatively inexperienced, but everything I've seen and done this far suggests that endgame (meaning being able to do high-level maps) is quite achievable. And this is an aRPG made by a company named Grinding Gear Games, not, say, a shooter by Speed Gaming Inc. I don't know how they could have made it more clear that a certain amount of grinding will be expected.

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knac84 a écrit :

You can rise all sort of artificial rules to make the game "harder" or "longer" for you if you will, like using blue gear or playing completely solo. Everyone is free to choose how to play, but is not how GGG has designed the game and we have to argue about the 'common case', that is, when you interact with other players to progress through the game. Being interested at 'character building', a lot of people will try to minimize the time investment by trading and all that, the cheats will do using RMT/FG.

A character can be leveled to 70 in a very short time and that is more than enough to get a good idea if you like it or not. Even 80 isn't that hard to get. Once you have 1 or 2 characters, you'll have a leveling items stash and it will become even quicker. Absolutely no need to involve trading.

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knac84 a écrit :

And in the process it will affect you, either if you acknowledge it or don't. The primary way it affects you is by devaluing your own in-game effort and time investment. Maybe you don't give a crap about that, but free gaming time (and time in general) being valuable to me, and time being the most precious commodity any human being has, I get pissed off about this shit (specially when we are talking about free time, gaming, which is supposed to avoid the same shit we have to deal with IRL on daily basis, btw something a lot of devs nowadays have forgot, we don't play to recreate RL in games).

BTW, it affects everything, including the value of rare items you may sell, the value of currency you find, and the effort you have to do achieving whatever you want to achieve all compared to your relative time investment and that of others, but in the end it's all about the value of your own effort and time, and it indeed affects how fun you perceive a game to be. If you perceive that developer doesn't give a crap about your effort, and this is made worse because external influences (botting, MBoxing, RMT'ing, etc.) are devaluing your effort, you are going to enjoy the game less in the long run (and then comes the rage, the quitting, the abandoning, and in the end, the lack of income).

You are thinking of value in terms of currency exchange rates. I suffer from the strange notion that the hardest it is to obtain something, the more valuable it is. For example, my Voll's protector dropped about a month ago and I managed to 5-link it only yesterday. And you know what? I was so fucking happy! My build was specifically designed to use it, I put it on, it "clicked" - my hero became much stronger and it made my day. The point of the game is to enjoy overcoming obstacles and to appreciate what you have and what you earn and no one can take this away from you. I am sure I felt 10 times more joy and satisfaction from my 5-link volls than a rich kid juggling with his legacy kaoms and shavs.

This being said, I realise my approach to the game is not universal and not everyone thinks like that. If one defines the value of his character and effort in the game as some kind of currency-equivalent and compares that to other players, what you said makes perfect sense. From that point of view, RMT is very bad indeed.

The best course of action would be either to adjust one's perspective and goals in the game or to move on since, from what I've seen thus far, expecting the situation with RMTers to improve seems a bit optimistic.

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Bars a écrit :

I'm still not convinced there is a wall if one's build and gameplay are good enough. I might be wrong as I am relatively inexperienced, but everything I've seen and done this far suggests that endgame (meaning being able to do high-level maps) is quite achievable. And this is an aRPG made by a company named Grinding Gear Games, not, say, a shooter by Speed Gaming Inc. I don't know how they could have made it more clear that a certain amount of grinding will be expected.

Yeah you are wrong, I can assure you, just go play 300h more and come back here with your opinion again, I might not be surprise to see a changement.

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Akaihana a écrit :

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Bars a écrit :

I'm still not convinced there is a wall if one's build and gameplay are good enough. I might be wrong as I am relatively inexperienced, but everything I've seen and done this far suggests that endgame (meaning being able to do high-level maps) is quite achievable. And this is an aRPG made by a company named Grinding Gear Games, not, say, a shooter by Speed Gaming Inc. I don't know how they could have made it more clear that a certain amount of grinding will be expected.

Yeah you are wrong, I can assure you, just go play 300h more and come back here with your opinion again, I might not be surprise to see a changement.

I've played a few hundred hours this league, couple hundred exalts in gear/currency, did high level maps, got a demi from racing. Is my opinion supposed to change because every random person hasn't learned enough about the game to do the same? Anyone who learns the game can do well, most people think that just grinding will get you currency/high level maps/race rewards, when really it's knowledge, practice and grinding.

the "hur dur im 300 hours in and no currency" people are the people that haven't learned the game and think the system is the only thing holding them down, they don't want to put any blame on themselves.

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Akaihana a écrit :

Yeah you are wrong, I can assure you, just go play 300h more and come back here with your opinion again, I might not be surprise to see a changement.

Until now, all roadblocks I've encountered in the game were directly related to my build or other aspects of my skill/knowledge. They could have been easily surpassed with ridiculously good items, but thinking, research and testing seem to be a reliable alternative. I keep seeing people complaining of "gear checks" which are actually skill checks and gear is just a way to brute-force them.

If I hit a wall and it seems impossible to progress without ridiculous gear, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong.

The most common roadblock is map drop rate. Reading the threads in feedback should be clue enough.

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Swagtrain a écrit :

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Akaihana a écrit :

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Bars a écrit :

I'm still not convinced there is a wall if one's build and gameplay are good enough. I might be wrong as I am relatively inexperienced, but everything I've seen and done this far suggests that endgame (meaning being able to do high-level maps) is quite achievable. And this is an aRPG made by a company named Grinding Gear Games, not, say, a shooter by Speed Gaming Inc. I don't know how they could have made it more clear that a certain amount of grinding will be expected.

Yeah you are wrong, I can assure you, just go play 300h more and come back here with your opinion again, I might not be surprise to see a changement.

I've played a few hundred hours this league, couple hundred exalts in gear/currency, did high level maps, got a demi from racing. Is my opinion supposed to change because every random person hasn't learned enough about the game to do well in it?

200 exalts worth in gear? Have you an idea about this amount? I have drop 7 exalts in 1000h.
The only way to ahve this amount atm without playing 10h/d is lucky loot like a soul taker, bot, rmt or up/down trading. I am not lucky and I dont want to do the rest, I did a bit of up/down trading during 2 weeks and earned 15 exalt worth in currency starting with only 1 but that not the way i am enjoying a video game.

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Akaihana a écrit :

200 exalts worth in gear? Have you an idea about this amount? I have drop 7 exalts in 1000h.
The only way to ahve this amount atm without playing 10h/d is lucky loot like a soul taker, bot, rmt or up/down trading. I am not lucky and I dont want to do the rest, I did a bit of up/down trading during 2 weeks and earned 15 exalt worth in currency starting with only 1 but that not the way i am enjoying a video game.

You sound like you think you know everything about PoE. This pity party attitude is so bad. Maybe you don't know everything and you can learn something in order to make your playing experience better? Or maybe you can stop measuring yourself against other players and just enjoy the game? I mean shit, I learned a lot this season, but by watching players that succeed in their respected areas of high level mapping/racing/currency generation I know I haven't even scratched the god damn surface in terms of any of these things, and have a lot to learn.