Is PoE suffering from poor game design choices?

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Moosifer a écrit :

I've never played DOTA but I did play a little LoL. It's such a slow game and how it's designed makes it so lag is going to be minimal.

These split second decision shit can just go away. Compared to most games it feels like you can write out a strategy on paper while waiting to engage in combat.

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Moosifer a écrit :

I've watched some of the high level streams to see what all the fuss was about because the game seemed so boring to me my first playthrough. Even after watching them the gameplay is slow, it's a split second decision followed by a long waiting period to see that decision play out. POE is much faster and FPS are lightyears beyond it.

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Moosifer a écrit :

Someone explained it earlier, it's two different systems. Would you rather engage in combat then desync or stand in place doing nothing? They are the same thing just you don't know desync is happening until you resync/die/notice nothing is happening. If you lag and have a long delay between commands it will be ever present and lead to the same or even more complaints, as people will always be able to see and feel it.

I've learned how to deal with desync. I know what to avoid and when to avoid it. Sometimes I'll play with 200 ping which means a constant delay that I can't do anything to fix, no adjusting, just dealing with it.

I much rather have desync.

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To some degree, I know GGG is somewhat doing this, but it's poorly executed obviously based on the massive amount of desyncing that is still going on. Here's how Valve does their work on the Source Engine, and although they have very similar methods, they have a few couple of differences that vastly change the experience of the game.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

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So the player would see his own change of movement with a 150 milliseconds delay after he started walking. This delay applies to all players actions like movement, shooting weapons, etc. and becomes worse with higher latencies.

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anubite a écrit :

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To some degree, I know GGG is somewhat doing this, but it's poorly executed obviously based on the massive amount of desyncing that is still going on. Here's how Valve does their work on the Source Engine, and although they have very similar methods, they have a few couple of differences that vastly change the experience of the game.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Please actually read what you are linking.

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So the player would see his own change of movement with a 150 milliseconds delay after he started walking. This delay applies to all players actions like movement, shooting weapons, etc. and becomes worse with higher latencies.

This is not how PoE works, ergo, you cannot make statements like, "lol ggg is doing what valve does, except poorly." The quoted segment is not how movement in poe is coded -- movement in poe in instantaneous; there is no 150 ms delay to your input - which is why desync DOES occur in PoE. Valve games do not have desync like PoE, valve games have traditional lag issues like LoL.

In PoE, you click to move -- and your client moves. Your client then updates the server on what you are doing on your end. The server will rubberband you if it can't make sense of your action - you were desync'd from the server, so it resync'd you. Desyncing happens when the server thinks you are X, but on the client you are playing, you are really Y. The server never trusts your client and overrides its own mistakes, so when packets are dropped and you're in a position you don't realize you are in, you get resync'd and probably are die, because monsters surrounded you in position X on the server's version of your game.

Valve games also have <32 players and <32 entities (on average anyway), units, et cetera on the screen at once - I've modded source multiplayer games and they simply cannot handle the number of networked entities PoE does, which already blows this whole comparison right out of the water. Valve can obviously make a lot more optimizations than PoE. For instance, source games don't keep track of corpses on the server, they also don't keep track of complex hitboxes (unless they're L4D or CS); they can afford to make a lot of approximations and most source games are played on maps 50% or less the size of your average PoE zone.

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allbusiness a écrit :

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anubite a écrit :

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To some degree, I know GGG is somewhat doing this, but it's poorly executed obviously based on the massive amount of desyncing that is still going on. Here's how Valve does their work on the Source Engine, and although they have very similar methods, they have a few couple of differences that vastly change the experience of the game.

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_Networking

Please actually read what you are linking.

"

So the player would see his own change of movement with a 150 milliseconds delay after he started walking. This delay applies to all players actions like movement, shooting weapons, etc. and becomes worse with higher latencies.

This is not how PoE works, ergo, you cannot make statements like, "lol ggg is doing what valve does, except poorly." The quoted segment is not how movement in poe is coded -- movement in poe in instantaneous; there is no 150 ms delay to your input - which is why desync DOES occur in PoE. Valve games do not have desync like PoE, valve games have traditional lag issues like LoL.

In PoE, you click to move -- and your client moves. Your client then updates the server on what you are doing on your end. The server will rubberband you if it can't make sense of your action - you were desync'd from the server, so it resync'd you. Desyncing happens when the server thinks you are X, but on the client you are playing, you are really Y. The server never trusts your client and overrides its own mistakes, so when packets are dropped and you're in a position you don't realize you are in, you get resync'd and probably are die, because monsters surrounded you in position X on the server's version of your game.

Valve games also have <32 players and <32 entities (on average anyway), units, et cetera on the screen at once - I've modded source multiplayer games and they simply cannot handle the number of networked entities PoE does, which already blows this whole comparison right out of the water. Valve can obviously make a lot more optimizations than PoE. For instance, source games don't keep track of corpses on the server, they also don't keep track of complex hitboxes (unless they're L4D or CS); they can afford to make a lot of approximations and most source games are played on maps 50% or less the size of your average PoE zone.

That's exactly what happens in Source, except its much more seamless. Valve has a much different model with dealing with desync. Desyncing occurs in all games, not just Path. Just that Path has an idiotic resync model.