Shavronne's Wrappings is facebreaker

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UnderOmerta a écrit :

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gfurm a écrit :

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silidons a écrit :

Nice Job Bro! Standard league is hard!

I didn't notice it was another standard vs hardcore thread.

Because it's a build that you wouldn't risk running in HC as anything other than a novelty to prove that you could do it. There's little chance that anyone who values their character in HC would take that kind of build into a high map. Hell, even in softcore, I doubt many people would want to run a build like that in high level maps. Dying in softcore is hours or days of work at higher levels.

Of course you can do this in HC. You just have to be quicker with alt+f4 or make a script that will do it for you.

And so what it's low level map? Most people will never play higher maps anyway, it's not like 70+ maps drop like flies in this game.

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Herpy_Derpleson a écrit :

Bullshit.

You can play low life/PA/RF without Shav's. You can enable low life activated items and PA without Shav's. You'll just get wrecked by chaos damage later on. Many builds have a downside if you have sub-optimal gear.

It is not build enabling, it is build sustaining.
Your argument is invalid.

So Shavs enables you to safely run a build that would "get wrecked" and it's not a build enabler? lol.

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CanHasPants a écrit :

This is a matter of the unique being BiS with no viable alternative. For PoE's meta to remain healthy and diverse, with meaningful choices, Shavronnes needs to be nerfed one way or another. I agree, fuck acrually touching the item, let it be, but something has to happen as an alternative, to make it worth choosing not to use Shav (which is, by its nature, an indirect nerf).

...But what's wrong with that? Yeah, Shavronne's is BiS with no viable alternative for low-life caster builds. But have fun running a Facebreaker build without Facebreakers and Meginord's - two basically mandatory BiS pieces for the build. Low-life is niche. It's not perfect, not necessarily optimal, and there's nothing wrong with a pretty much mandatory BiS unique. What there is something wrong with, though, is having that mandatory BiS unique be about as rare as the absolute rarest luxury items. The problem remains the rarity, and potentially small balance tweaks.

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Herpy_Derpleson a écrit :

Bullshit.

You can play low life/PA/RF without Shav's. You can enable low life activated items and PA without Shav's. You'll just get wrecked by chaos damage later on. Many builds have a downside if you have sub-optimal gear.

It is not build enabling, it is build sustaining.
Your argument is invalid.

You can play unarmed without Facebreakers. You can enable weaponless combat without Facebreakers. You'll just get wrecked when your DPS tops out at a few hundred in endgame. Many builds have a downside if you have sub-optimal gear.

Facebreakers are not build enabling, they are build sustaining.
Your argument is fucking stupid.

People used to run low life build in closed beta without shavronne. It was hard to do but possible. Suddenly it's impossible. Strange.

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gfurm a écrit :

People used to run low life build in closed beta without shavronne. It was hard to do but possible. Suddenly it's impossible. Strange.

The existence of a much better option at the same cost (and yes, a full set of well-rolled rares with chaos resist, life, and eshield is worth as much as one Shavronne's) is the issue.

I enjoyed low-life before Shavronne's since it involved getting gear and then getting better gear progressively. Now low-life is getting a Shavronne's, then never ever taking it off and also being easily twice as strong as those poor chumps who don't have one yet.

Welcome to the World of

Buildenablers and Builddisablers
Buildtransformers and Buildtransmogrifiers
Builddestroyers and Buildemployers

A "build" is what you guys call it to be.
The idea to call a single item "build"enabler is stupid, as long as a build can consist of several items.

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gfurm a écrit :

People used to run low life build in closed beta without shavronne. It was hard to do but possible. Suddenly it's impossible. Strange.

I'll admit I missed the boat on that one, but I honestly can't see how. Most low-life builds aren't going to have more base life than most life-based builds. Let's be generous and assume that they worked to stack life on a lot of their gear, and get more life passives than they should want, and ended up with something like 2k life. 33% of that is about 600. Someone with 600 life would get one-shot in maps by an alchemist farting. How would that even work? Do they somehow get like 75% chaos res, and run amethyst flasks? Isn't the gear needed for that almost absurdly specific (you need all of your gear to have life, ES, AND chaos res)?

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Budget_player_cadet a écrit :

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gfurm a écrit :

People used to run low life build in closed beta without shavronne. It was hard to do but possible. Suddenly it's impossible. Strange.

I'll admit I missed the boat on that one, but I honestly can't see how.

I think it had a lot to do with chaos resistance not existing, and thus having base 0 Chaos resistance in Merciless (not -60%). Although logically it would still be possible now, it's just that you'd need to squeeze in two or three Chaos res suffixes which you didn't need to previously.

But that makes just as little sense, unless the chaos damage mobs were toned way down - alchemists do way more damage than that, and bosses like Bramblemist would just completely destroy them.