Sexy females

God knows nobody is getting off to images of the Templar.

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skattles90 a écrit :

I would agree but some of these people need to get girl friends and remember that there are free porn sites to look at Boobs an Asses any day and any time you want.

First off, i'm engaged. Secondly, while that is true, it's not something you can really do while playing the game unless you dual monitor. And even then, you'll probably die if you try that.

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DasRoach a écrit :

That is purely subjective and you have no data to back up that assertion. My circle of friends and I fit the "older player" demographic and to the best of my knowledge none of us are annoyed by these things.
I think you would find that most older players are too desensitized to be worried about a pair of digital boobs and how they may or may not titillate them.

Of course. It's extremely difficult to find real data on older demographics, because the vast majority of psychological and sociological research is done on undergraduate university students.

I think we can both agree that anecdotes are not data. Your personal experiences of it not mattering are not good evidence, nor are my own personal experiences with the opposite.

Having said that, though, holy hell there is evidence that sexualized female characters offends female gamers. Just after two or three minutes of searching I found multiple studies, it was like shooting fish in a barrel. I know you agreed with me on this count, but some others disagreed. For example,

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MM209 a écrit :

I've known quite a few female gamers who think the opposite, they want to play characters that are sexy and not fugly.

This particular sword cuts both ways.

It happens, but there are outliers for everything. For actual research, though:

On average, girls and women are less involved with video games than are boys and men, and when they do play, they often prefer different games. This article reports two studies that investigated the dislikes of German females with regard to video games. Study 1 applied conjoint analysis to female respondents’ (N= 317) ratings of fictional video games and demonstrated that lack of meaningful social interaction, followed by violent content and sexual gender role stereotyping of game characters, were the most important reasons why females disliked the games. . . .

Hartmann, T. and Klimmt, C. (2006), Gender and Computer Games: Exploring Females’ Dislikes. Journal of Computer-Mediated Communication, 11: 910–931. doi: 10.1111/j.1083-6101.2006.00301.x

You could argue that the violent content is going to turn off women gamers to begin with, and that would probably have some merit. Nevertheless, I'd argue that violence+sexism combined is probably much worse than only one of those things. "Meaningful social interaction" is sadly left vague in the abstract and I can't access the full text, so I'll not comment on that either way.

The present study utilized an experimental design to investigate the short term effects of exposure to sexualized female video game characters on gender stereotyping and female self-concept in emerging adults. Bussey and Bandura’s (1999) social cognitive theory of gender development and differentiation was used to explicate this relationship. Undergraduate students (N = 328) at a large U.S. Southwestern university participated in the study. Students were randomly assigned to play a “sexualized” heroine, a “non-sexualized” heroine, or no video game; then completed an online questionnaire. Female self-efficacy was negatively affected by game play with the sexualized female character. Results cautiously suggest that playing a sexualized video game heroine unfavorably influenced people’s beliefs about women in the real world.


Behm-Morawitz, E. and Mastro, D. (2009), The Effects of the Sexualization of Female Video Game Characters on Gender Stereotyping and Female Self-Concept. Sex Roles, issue 11 volume 61, 808-823. doi: 10.1007/s11199-009-9683-8

Anyway, this isn't really the place for academic discussion, but being called on my data raised my hackles a bit. It is pretty well established that sexist stuff generally offends women or makes them self-deprecate, neither of which are conductive to targeting a customer base.

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DasRoach a écrit :

I hesitantly agree, if you are speaking of toons that look like strippers, hentai, heavy metal (the comic) or Boris Vallejo women then i agree... they are a bit too .... unsuitable .... for the wraeclast atmosphere.

but if you are speaking of attractive but appropriately armoured females then no I disagree.

I was mostly thinking of World of Warcraft when I wrote my post and, to an extent, Dungeon Defenders.

Wow is pretty jaw-dropping with its sexism. Look at the male and female worgen models for one of the most obvious examples: the men are dangerous looking feral wolfmen. The females are basically what you would find on a DeviantArt profile featuring furry porn except, y'know, they have some clothes. Sometimes.

Tauren are also especially bad, but...yeah. Basically everything in that game is a huge offender.

There's certainly nothing wrong with being able to pick your gender with a class, and nothing wrong with having attractive female character models. It's just when you get to the point where the men are either burly or "normal" but the women are hyper-sexualized, unrealistically proportioned, and/or strippers that you have problems.

Judging by the tone of OP, it sounds like this thread is basically asking for strippers.

I think the ranger and the witch are both great at being realistic, reasonably attractive models without being overly sexualized. Especially the ranger: realistic and practical for the story presented with the character. Great job!

^
Implying that because there is a study about it, it is true.

There are studies to prove anything. Two contrary points of view are often both proven, with studies.

You lack some basic cynicism...

I doubt there is a proper way to know the difference. If you ask girls directly they'll probably tell you it "offends them". But in reality, maybe subconsciously they'd prefer the game. WHO THE FUCK KNOWS?

Jesus christ. Initially I actually assumed the OP was a joke designed to pull in some stupid sexist comments. But now you're actually putting forth the idea that we shouldn't listen to girls, because maybe subconsciously they actually like things they say they don't like. Do you also think we shouldn't listen to you, because maybe your actual opinion is the opposite of what you say?

Seriously, fuck everyone who wants moar boobies in videogames. There is so much sexism in the game industry already without GGG jumping on board.

great post Saela =) thanks for taking the time to post it.

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GusTheCrocodile a écrit :

Jesus christ. Initially I actually assumed the OP was a joke designed to pull in some stupid sexist comments. But now you're actually putting forth the idea that we shouldn't listen to girls, because maybe subconsciously they actually like things they say they don't like. Do you also think we shouldn't listen to you, because maybe your actual opinion is the opposite of what you say?

Seriously, fuck everyone who wants moar boobies in videogames. There is so much sexism in the game industry already without GGG jumping on board.

My opinion probably is the opposite of what I say, I see you are learning fast.

Maybe I am subconsciously expressing my hatred for sexism in games by wanting to push it to the point of absurd, ridiculing the whole thing.

Or maybe I just love to see boobies.

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Frog a écrit :

Maybe I am subconsciously expressing my hatred for sexism in games by wanting to push it to the point of absurd, ridiculing the whole thing.

Yes, that's what I thought. Kinda think you have to be careful with such parody in a community that doesn't know you very well though, it's too easy to mistake it for yet another horrible post by an idiot.

Which of course doesn't ruin your fun, since of course, you know what you think. But it can limit your impact to simple trolling.

Once again a great topic, filled to the rim with psychology, different opinions and yes ... sexy females...

Anyway, anyone ever noticed f2p-game ads on other websites? They almost always have a big boobed (or several) girls on the front, logically placed so people get interested - not because of the story or ideas the game might have - just to quickly access the baser instincts of "man"-kind.

I mean sure, those studies Saela quoted certainly have proven their points of view - and as Frog said, who the fck knows what's going on in their minds. There are many girl-gamers that love to play bloody-gory-splatter-games - not EVERY girl, but there are some. There are also those girls that love to look at gorgeous "women", practicality with a bow aside, but big boobs = big self-esteem in their eyes.

Personally, I really didn't find the Ranger and Witch unattractive, but at first I was quite amazed not to find some oversized-tit-monsters in here as in other games I've played. I also love boobs and wouldn't mind to get to see more in here... (let's just imagine our Ranger and Witch getting attacked and having their clothes and armor torn to shreds *droolz*) but THAT doesn't make it a necessity to have!

In Burlesque-shows it's more about fantasy than actually what your eyes see. The more the body's covered up the more gaps are there to be filled up in your mind. Now if you want a stripper it's something else, sure she gets naked alright but she's basically handing everything over on a silver-plate - brain-> switch off.

This is a dark-themed fantasy game, those few that survive until they hit the shore and get into the first encampment are lucky enough ... and love is probably one of the most luxurious goods there on Wraeclast. But that doesn't mean that every girl there throws away her dignity, whether it be half-naked NPC girls like Nessa or PCs like the Ranger and Witch.
And so since this is a dark-themed FANTASY game, a stripper would be really badly out of place here... but whatever... who the fck knows what's going on in these ingame-girls heads..? °_°;;

The best way to know if big boobs equals less girls is to actually count the number of girls playing it, not to ask them directly, the latter being a very poor method.

It could be that more sexy women equals more players in general, first men, then they attract their girlfriends and in the end more girls are in game. Or who knows, maybe sexier women does attract more girls, for some reason I have a feeling this could happen, even if by reason they think they dislike the idea. So many factors are to consider!

The sheer amount of theories, which are probably all bullshit, shows that you can't know. So let's just be content to mindlessly enjoy the fantastic boobies...

But it's not even just about sexy female skins anymore. Every player should be allowed to customize his character as his wishes.