Less RNG in Socket Crafting Please!

Edit: Because I felt like sockets/skills where the main problem.

Seriously socket crafting in this game isn't fun because it feels less like creating something and more like rolling dice. And if you don't get enough sockets on a better piece of gear it actually reverses your character progression and makes you remove skills.

Changes I would make:

Chromatic Orb: Now only effects the socket you highlight. Cycles through the 3 colors in standard order.

Jewler's Orb: Ads a socket to an item.

Orb of fusing: Links the two sockets you place it between.

The other orbs dont really need changing, but these orbs in particular should be less chance related primarily because these are linked directly to skill usage and how your character functions rather than simply how powerful they are.

No one wants to acquire a new skill only to be forced to drop it later because of gear. Its not a fun mechanic, and it doesn't follow the standard RPG mechanics of constant upward growth.

In my world every mid to late game player would be running 4 and 6 (or 3/5 or whatever is balanced) socket gear across the board. The hardcore players would have better stats on their gear but every player would have fairly easy access to the same amount of skills.

TL:DR
I'm essentially advocating something that is more of a compromise between what we have now and a traditional skill tree where you always have your skills regardless of the gear you find. Something in the middle.

That would make currency redundant and cheap. 6 links would be common and the game would be ruined. I agree the casino system needs to be changed, but not like you suggested ;).

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Ferumbras a écrit :

That would make currency redundant and cheap. 6 links would be common and the game would be ruined. I agree the casino system needs to be changed, but not like you suggested ;).

You're treating a GAME as a MARKET SIMULATION?

But you think that's ok? :/

I see little reason why making gear links and nodes more accessable thus removing the gap between the highest and the mid to second highest gear would be a bad thing, aside from player avarice and degrading the "perceived" idea that this game is in fact called

"trade magical trousers of exile online"

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Loki421 a écrit :

Chromatic Orb: Now only effects the socket you highlight. Cycles through the 3 colors in standard order.

Jewler's Orb: Ads a socket to an item.

Orb of fusing: Links the two sockets you place it between.

Chromatic Orbs are already pretty easy to manipulate; they are not pure RNG and they are very predictable.

I'm not a huge fan of the crafting system either, but the socketing/linking system is the better part of the crafting system. These low-end currencies are much more efficient (imo) in crafting gear compared to the higher-end currencies (as long as you aren't forcing a 6-link).

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2ofSpades a écrit :

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Loki421 a écrit :

Chromatic Orb: Now only effects the socket you highlight. Cycles through the 3 colors in standard order.

Jewler's Orb: Ads a socket to an item.

Orb of fusing: Links the two sockets you place it between.

Chromatic Orbs are already pretty easy to manipulate; they are not pure RNG and they are very predictable.

I'm not a huge fan of the crafting system either, but the socketing/linking system is the better part of the crafting system. These low-end currencies are much more efficient (imo) in crafting gear compared to the higher-end currencies (as long as you aren't forcing a 6-link).

It's intended to make say a high red "cloth" armor, more valuable.

And honestly, "manipulation" is merely considering the odds that it's more common for blues on cloth and whatnot. It's STILL RNG, it's STILL archaic and bad game design, and it's STILL unrewarding.

And inb4 the "we wanted an old school game" responses.

While we're at it, lets litter the areas with coins you have to collect, moving platforms that you have to jump to or you die, and a life count so that if you run out you have to start again.

Arguably those are thematic gameplay elements but still, they're all "oldschool" ideas that are great when used correctly, and TERRIBLE when utilized lazily or without thinking.
A great crafting system BRINGS people to your game, a bad one quickly becomes a bone of contention (guild wars 2 crafting is MUCK) and a good one, well a good one can in fact be used to base an ENTIRE game around. We don't even have a BAD system here, wherein you can create gear that you can use up to a limit but then it falls off and may not exist or is eaten by the RNG monster, we have a system that is built on the BACK of the RNG monster and it is just woeful.

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Hellkaiser a écrit :

It's STILL RNG, it's STILL archaic and bad game design, and it's STILL unrewarding.

If looting is rng base and crafting is not, then there is a great imbalance between the two. This would mean that crafted items would have to be very underwhelming; which is a bad crafting system as you pointed out.

So what do you propose ggg should do?

Seems the "new school", unlike the old school, just want everything easier.

The game needs RNG or else it would get boring once you made the best gear possible. However they do need to adjust the % chances of you getting certain things.

Should never take 1500 fusings to get a 6L

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2ofSpades a écrit :

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Hellkaiser a écrit :

It's STILL RNG, it's STILL archaic and bad game design, and it's STILL unrewarding.

If looting is rng base and crafting is not, then there is a great imbalance between the two. This would mean that crafted items would have to be very underwhelming; which is a bad crafting system as you pointed out.

So what do you propose ggg should do?

I never said that the well known "RNG monster" wasn't a PART of any RPG design, far from it.
What I am saying is that every time you notice that supposedly invisible part of the game something has gone amiss, it's not fun when you blatantly are introduced to said RNG monster element and then forced to sit down and have have a bikini wax, while it works out how you're going to pay tribute to it every time you want to actually enjoy the game at a progressive pace that's not a snails crawl.

No one is asking for trivialization of content, but gear is not =/= content. It however can inadvertently or perhaps by lazy design, GATE you from content. That's not ok.

Not when there has been a whole host of better crafting systems that don't shove rng down your throat but instead allow you to in fact craft gear that helps you to overcome obstacles thrown at you. or utilize RNG in a sense of how far you can progress between say a small pool of numbers, but doesn't often throw 0's at you to the point where it becomes a monotonous chore.
FAR FAR FAR too many games throw too many 0's at us only to then throw a thousand, and that only serves to warp the actual progress towards a goal of obtaining something into a feeling of stale grind til it's done, not a progress. This never leads to engaging gameplay. You then have to factor in risk and reward, should the harder bosses and monsters drop better loot? absolutely, but then why do I keep fighting monsters that have the most irritating of desynch causing or specific build destroying mods and getting drops that make me stare at the screen and wonder why I risked 15% of my hp fighting them... when folks ask why they did it, that's a sign they're beginning to question the rewards, it might not be as bad as they make out but it's that moment where the player has willingly removed themselves from the game and broken immersion to question what they deem a flaw. You can't please everyone but there is far better ways than this... do I really need to point these out and elaborate?

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Biovital a écrit :

The game needs RNG or else it would get boring once you made the best gear possible. However they do need to adjust the % chances of you getting certain things.

Should never take 1500 fusings to get a 6L

If it's gameplay is SO dependent on RNG then clearly the game is lacking in itself. I don't think this is the case and would still play the game with changes to what I deem is a reliance on an RNG crutch that sucks the fun out of games and makes for crappy progress in a game, in fact I'd play it more, and enjoy it more if the pressure and random shittyness of gearing up was lessened to a degree even. This game is NOT lacking in variety and has tons of potential, I have no idea why you'd think the RNG makes the game less "boring" but I'd LOVE for you to elaborate on your claim with enough to at least get me and others to think this ISN'T because you like flipping items and farming endlessly (something that is not considered that fun) as really your vague answers don't give much to discuss. No offense.

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BazzV5 a écrit :

Seems the "new school", unlike the old school, just want everything easier.

Odd's are... I'm more old school than most. And i was one of the main opposing voices to LFR in WoW before I walked and "voted with my feet" on the forums, I know full well the slippery slope that too much "no idiot left behind" pandering can lead to. That doesn't in fact negate the that game design evolves and eventually we come up with better ideas for them, as opposed to archaic crap.
As I keep saying. RNG reliance does not a fun game make, unless it's a gambling game built entirely around it and is open about it and your odds are readily available and transparent, gambling is great and all, but seriously games based on it without hiding it behind magical trousers are more appealing to me and seem more honest, all RPG games need to start acting more responsible in this manner otherwise the genre is boned due to stagnation.

In these games, you can't "beat the odds" just beat your head off a wall til the odds yield... That isn't fun, and it's a terrible way of working in progression into your game, we have seen better, and we can't go backwards on the universally BETTER changes made to all RPG's, we can and should however refute and and abandon the worst ones, like the RMAH etc.

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Biovital a écrit :

The game needs RNG
Should never take 1500 fusings to get a 6L

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