Fixing the Aura Stacking + Pumping Single Skill Problem
" They can feel superior as shit as they want, as long as the game still makes other people enjoy the game, and the Spikes don't "mess" with those people. Basically, let them be the elite they want to be enclosed on their "HC leagues" and "Cutthroat Uber Lethal Races", but let other players (Johnny+Tommy+others) be somewhere else, enjoying the game their way. A "normal" (non-Spike) player trying to play the game, getting stuck, getting frustrated, not being able to progress no matter what, etc, while the Spikes just call them "idiot noobs" for not playing like them is not part of that ideal at all. In fact, considering "Default League", and "Hardcore League"....why just not make all these changes apply to Default league and that's it? Create new vendor recipes for gems and change the link/socket system to "accommodate casual players" only on Default. HC "Spikes" won't complain at all, since they will be on HC league either way (and don't get any changes there), but casuals can go to Default and enjoy the game a little bit more It'd also bring some other differences to the leagues which I think should happen at some level (gameplay between both of them is exactly the same. If you don't die on both the only thing different are some slight economy changes because of item sink for players that die) I think it was you who said it'd "segregate" the player base....but yeah what is the alternative? If it works then use it until you find a better way to improve the gaming experience to both Spikes and non-Spikes without said "segregation". " Well, "Spikes" have nothing to do with logical arguments and everything to do with ARPG play styles...so now I'm definitely not a spike :P Yeah..I don't get the Zeal->Hammer thing (didn't really play that much D2...I think I just played a WW Barb and that's it lol. Got 1 time to A1 Hell and got stuck, never played again) As much as I love having "logical superiority", I mostly want that "superiority" so what I say, which hopefully does work, is implemented in this game or taken into account to make it even more enjoyable, not only for other people but also for me (or well, maybe the other way round, considering I'm not playing much PoE lately). |
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All auras should be percentage based. This actually makes you THINK about which auras you want to use.
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I dot agree theres a problem at all, its just fine as it is. So what if some people spam one skill, a lot of people dont, who cares if you have a load of auras, yeah of course you do, why wouldnt you?
dont get what you are complaining about at all, its perfectly fine like this. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Make clarity passive to every body, cause everyone uses that shit except for BM.
Make aura limit 3, but increased with Inner Force to 4. Make them weaker? Or is everyone supposed to be an auramancer like how they currently are atm? |
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Great deal of hatred coming from you, gonzaw. How has this topic gotten under your skin?
" It's not abnormal to be a Spike, and as I said earlier, namecalling does not equal competitiveness. Some namecallers are just straight-up assholes, and demographics don't really apply. "It's not Spike vs casual. There are lots of "casuals" who are Spikes -- they're the ones on Default who would get pissed off if you called them casual. Actually, a great many hardcores are more in it for the flavor of only living once, while a great many Spikes wonder why anyone would be stupid enough to subject themselves to a one-death limit without a tangible benefit in return. " It also makes it devilishly hard to make an aura-stacking character if you really want to have one, and are willing to dedicate to it properly. These things shouldn't be impossible, they should just be hard. If you wanted to stack auras, you could still go Eldritch Battery; I made a build that got over 10,000 mana once, so EB can literally do anything you heart desires in mana-land, and could stomach any increased-cost nerf we tossed at it. With that sole exception, flat aura costs should be adjusted so that it's impossible to make massive aura-stacking happen. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Dernière édition par ScrotieMcB#2697, le 28 mars 2013 à 00:04:09
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" The only "hatred" there might be is against the mentality from that article....and of some people that do post in threads every once and then with that same mentality I have no hatred when discussing how to improve the game (to other players and stuff), that's actually fun (specially if someone listens!) :P " By "casual", I mean players that follow that "let's play this, have fun, see how it goes, bla bla bla" mentality. Of course, being "casual" also means not playing 10 hours per day, but only 1-2 or maybe less. By "normal" I meant average, that plays more to the style of other average gamers in other genres, etc; hence the quotation mark Also, I may be generalizing with Spikes and stuff, but of course I only mean the people that do in fact do that, or have a problem with that, etc. If there is a Spike that keeps his mouth shut, enjoys the game by himself, and doesn't harm anybody, then I'm not talking about him. " Yeah...I'm confused. I don't really see how in context what we are calling "Spikes" can be what (again in context) we are calling "casuals" You can argue semantics about the exact terms, but I thought the context was clear. Yes, being on Default or Hardcore League doesn't mean you are Spike or not, mainly because there's so little "difference" between them. I guess mostly people that have huge egos and want bragging rights are Spikes in HC. There can be Spikes in Default too yes, but I doubt they are casuals. I think it would just be better to create a better category for this stuff. It may get confusing throwing around the words "Spike" with "casual vs hardcore" and "Default vs Hardcore league player" and we might just go nowhere and spend 10 pages discussing semantics. |
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Just for the record I would be very unhappy about changing default to make it 'more forgiving' for no reason other than because people complained.
I feel the 'difficulty' balance in general is fine. There is some issues (see mooses post for a good summary of most of them), but they are issues rather than just the general setup. |
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" what exactly do you have against auras? Is everyone supposed to use them? Well... is everyone supposed to use items? Is everyone supposed to use attacks? Yeah, sort of, is this really a problem? They help, a lot, armour helps a lot, ev helps, es helps, health helps, every now and then you get a build that doesnt really need to stack most of these, thats rare, rare to see a build that doesnt get help from auras, of course, if theyre of use then why wouldnt you have them? and whats really the problem with that? If anything there just needs to be more auras to give a wider range of possibilities and choices to make when it comes to which ones you run. You have your health, you have your armour, es, ev, mana, auras, attacks, equipment, I still really struggle to see how taking the word auras out of that list makes this a better game? What am I missing here people? fill me in. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Couple of things I'd like to point out, purely my opinion so don't take it as gospel.
1. There are cooldowns in the game that aren't called cooldowns. They are cast speeds and attack speeds. Between cast speed/attack speed, and damage effictiveness, all the skills should be able to be balanced. 2. The skill gem system this game uses forces you to super one skill. At most (and if you're rich) 2 skills. As you can only have greater than a 4L skill on a chest piece, or a two handed weapon. Therefore any mechanic trying to reduce how much you spam one skill shouldn't exist, as you want your best skill with the most supports to be used all the time. 3. I haven't completely liked any of the ideas I read in this thread regarding auras so far. None of them seem to address the problem stated as compulsory aura stacking. Some parts of ideas have merit, but not in the total change that was being suggested. That being said, I think some of the reasons why aura stacking is compulsory have been touched on above: a) have to have massive mana total to get reasonable regen. b) because of this lots of spare mana c) auras are more powerful than corresponding passives There is a lot that needs to be done to remove compulsory aura stacking, and all of the changes interacts with each other, and therefore the first try will undoubtedly over nerf or not do enough to stop aura stacking. Doubling mana regen of max mana is a good start. This would mean people need only half the mana to get the right regen. This also double the effectiveness of the passive mana regen nodes. Make max mana harder to get, and more focused on the classes that shuold be using high mana cost skills (spell users). As suggested in hybrids earlier, calculate regen on available mana. OR Have auras scale upward with greater amounts of unreserved mana. ie, if you only run the 1 aura, say its a %% based aura, it should give you its current goodness (which is better than passive tree). However if you stack another %% aura, and you're unreserved mana halfed, then you might get only 50% of the effectiveness of both auras. This is obviously a simple example, and effectiveness probably wouldn't necessarily reduce so quickly (or linearly). End note: I didn't think it was really relevent to the discussion, but whoever suggested making a support gem that boosted damage heaps but introduced a cooldown to the skill, is a cool idea. However, you wouldn't need to use cooldown, as stated above, you can just use LESS cast and attack speed as a mod on the support. This would do the something. especially if you make it 100% or 200% (adds 1 to 2 seconds to the skill). |
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" Nothing written in that article has anything to do with what I am saying, so I don't see how this is relevant Anyways why are we arguing about difficulty, I am not asking to make the game easier, if anything the changes I am proposing will make the game easier, it means it won't be so easy to steamroll by just spamming a single skill " Lets get a few things straight here I am not imposing that every skill has a cooldown. Some skills will have zero cooldown, hell I guess under my impressions it would be 50-70% of active skills. If you want to play a character that has zero cooldown abilities, you can, nothing is stopping you from doing that (with the changes I am proposing). You would simply either use skills that have no cooldown, or you would use a "Cooldown reduction" gem on the skills that do have a cooldown I am not trying to stop you from spamming a zero cooldown skill. You are more than entitled to, and those skills will still exist (or you would be able to turn a cooldown skill into a near no cooldown skill with a support gem, just as you can with any other skill) The point of this change is to create an extra balance layer for skills that have completely ridiculous scaling due to mechanics, skills like FP/EK/LA. Other skills like totems also fall into this area. Its to add another dynamic to PoE to make it more complex and deep The fact is, that changing numbers to try and balance these skills have achieved nothing. Even with things like chain nerf, and dual totem nerf (through ancestral bond), both of those builds are both way too effective for effort required. I am saying this right now, you are not going to fix this single skill spamming = most effective problem with just changing numbers around on the skills. The only way to fix this issue is to add another dynamic to skills. I have however never mandated a forced skill system that D3, nor putting a cooldown on every skill Also cold snap would still suck even if it didn't have a cooldown, its for reasons above its cooldown (and I am sure in general, if there was a cooldown reduction gem, than people would be able to make more use of it) Dernière édition par deteego#6606, le 28 mars 2013 à 00:36:15
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