Fixing the Aura Stacking + Pumping Single Skill Problem

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gh0un a écrit :

Removing auras or altering them too much would have serious repercussions at this point in time. (content would have to be rebalanced completely)
The only thing we can actually hope for, is to get new auras implemented into the game.
The more auras, the more choices we have, instead of everyone running around with the same old auras (even in parties).

What they should change about auras though, is to remove the reduced mana support gem out of the game, and just lower the mana cost of all auras to 70% of their current value (imitating the reduced mana gem).
Using an aura without reduced mana is just dumb, but putting in reduced mana for all your auras doesnt make you look smart either, its a fucking nobrainer.
Every aura needs reduced mana support, there is nothing special about it, no choices involved, nothing. Just remove that thing already and lower basecost of auras to 70% (that way we dont have to rebalance the content).

I do agree on the point regarding reduced mana support gem. This gem is almost exclusively used with auras--nobody uses auras without the gem once character meets level/stat requirements. Reduced mana support is also not used for active skills because it means you trade little mana/life reduction for potentially significant improvement in skill performance.

I have a problem with the first part of the statement. Auras can not be required to clear content in current version of the game. If it is so, there is much bigger problem than just everybody running with the same auras.
First of all, not everybody is running with the same auras. Bloodmagic users do not use % based auras unless they build some weird low-life build. This alone means that auras that can cause issues with balancing content like Determination or Purity are not available to all. If you are required to run these above mentioned auras, especially Purity for the added max resist feature, player is forced to either run mana build and this required aura or group to beat the content. This right away disqualify solo players with BM from the group that can beat the content.
All in all, auras can not be required to clear content. Therefore, it is wrong if everybody use auras as stated in OP and the functionality should be changed in some way to make the optional benefit for group play rather than individual buff for a character.

Just want to throw in that I hate cooldowns in APRGs, I definetly liked the combat as it was in D2 more as that of D3.
Looking at Titan Quest it was also a terrible "feature", with some skills that had ridicoulus cooldowns in exchange for high power, but that way you were vulnerable when running around with the skill on CD. Result was that people stacked "reduced cooldown"-items to 100% reduce...Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't like cooldowns. :P

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deteego a écrit :

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bvnl a écrit :

CD on main attack skills will only make 6L items mandatory so ppl can link 2-3 LA gems to 4-3 support gems.
Skills gems are not balanced: certain skills r stronger than others so ppl will go with the tactic i described above.
Adding CD will destroy the concept of building characters in this game. How do you intend (for example) to build your ranger if you r forced to utilize LA, Split arrow, PA, BA, IS at the same time? (obviously you wont be casting spells because your bow skill is on CD)


I could add more but arguments described above seem enough to me.

Uh, the cooldown is not global?

You use LA, LA goes on cooldown. At this point in time, you would have some other skill (lets say poison arrow) which would use. There is also an assumption that you will have an active skill that will have zero cooldown (I am not advocating putting a cooldown on every skill

Yeah, the problem is if LA or FP doesnt have cooldown then nothing will change, ppl will just keep spamming them...:)
The biggest problem is that you dont have enough sockets to run 6 active skills (like in d3) with supports.

What if mana regen was simply capped the same way life leech is? Using the current non-reserved mana as the maximum for the 20% to apply to. So having 1000 max mana, use a 40% aura leaving me with 600 mana available to spend would mean I could only regen a max of 120/s through natural regen or mana leech. This way a mana heavy main skill that you've stacked mana costs onto would require using no auras or a lot of mana potions. A mana leech gem by itself wont carry a 6-linked super nuke.

The tradeoffs are then fairly simple: Either use no auras but keep using your super strong main attack skill, use auras but mix up skills and carry mana potions, or simply spec into having a huge amount of mana but lose out on other necessary stats.

It'd be a single change, simple enough to explain the same way the cap on life leech is and makes mana a much more important thing to manage when in the late game. Which is pretty much all that needs changing!

e: woops

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bvnl a écrit :

Yeah, the problem is if LA or FP doesnt have cooldown then nothing will change, ppl will just keep spamming them...:)
The biggest problem is that you dont have enough sockets to run 6 active skills (like in d3) with supports.

You can spam them if you want, it will just be terribly ineffecient, to the point where you may as well use a skill inbetween the cooldowns, which is what we are trying to achieve ;)

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raz0r_boy a écrit :

Just a thought here but if you were to take, let's say FP, and make that skill have a CD, but bumping it's damage output by say..15%..wouldn't that in the end just make the damage over time end up roughly the same? the only consequence you'll get is having people being more vulnerable to incoming damage and having to spec for 2-3 different skills? don't really see the benefit gained here.

Well we need to ask ourselves if FP is actually "imbalanced"

If its imbalanced, then we don't need to increase the damage to make up for CD (even though a damage increase of 15% was never going to make up the DPS for having a cooldown of 3 seconds)

If its not imbalanced, then there isn't an issue

The main point is to promote an active playstyle, so whatever means achieve that end

Basing mana regeneration off available mana instead of total mana would absolutely destroy frenzy builds. If you wanted to go go that route, you would need to create a mana analogue to "life gain on hit."

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Lord_of_Error a écrit :

Just want to throw in that I hate cooldowns in APRGs, I definetly liked the combat as it was in D2 more as that of D3.

Is there any reason in particular, or do you just like spamming the same skill over and over?

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Lord_of_Error a écrit :

Looking at Titan Quest it was also a terrible "feature", with some skills that had ridicoulus cooldowns in exchange for high power, but that way you were vulnerable when running around with the skill on CD. Result was that people stacked "reduced cooldown"-items to 100% reduce...Apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't like cooldowns. :P

As I said before, TQ made their cooldowns way too high

I agree with the notion that cooldowns arent necessarily the right direction to go, because in this style of game you are supposed to spam skills. That's the entire point of the playstyle. 2-4 second cooldowns really dont add anything to the gameplay, even if they do affect balance.


That being said, I do agree that builds are very limited by the fact that each build only needs a single skill to spam.

I was wondering recently whether GGG made the right decision by not including immunities as a mod for monsters, and allowing players such easy access to lowering enemy resistance. I feel like build diversity would benefit greatly if players actually had to optimize more than a single skill in order to account for different enemy types.



That being said, there could certainly be better skill design for PoE that doesnt simply facilitate spamming a single skill repeatedly. Another thing skills with cooldowns would do is fix the problem of high attack speed weapons utterly dominating the DPS market.


Whatever the end result is, some diversity in playstyle and builds would certainly be welcome.

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BRavich a écrit :

I agree with the notion that cooldowns arent necessarily the right direction to go, because in this style of game you are supposed to spam skills. That's the entire point of the playstyle. 2-4 second cooldowns really dont add anything to the gameplay, even if they do affect balance.


That being said, I do agree that builds are very limited by the fact that each build only needs a single skill to spam.

I was wondering recently whether GGG made the right decision by not including immunities as a mod for monsters, and allowing players such easy access to lowering enemy resistance. I feel like build diversity would benefit greatly if players actually had to optimize more than a single skill in order to account for different enemy types.



That being said, there could certainly be better skill design for PoE that doesnt simply facilitate spamming a single skill repeatedly. Another thing skills with cooldowns would do is fix the problem of high attack speed weapons utterly dominating the DPS market.


Whatever the end result is, some diversity in playstyle and builds would certainly be welcome.

Adding immunites isn't going to fix this issue at all, and it will most likely create other massive big problems