Fixing the Aura Stacking + Pumping Single Skill Problem

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Patsboem a écrit :

First: You can only use an aura visible in the skillbar. So going with 6 auras will leave you with almost no room for you skills.

Just wanted to point out that this is misconception--there is no need to have auras on skillbar, not at all. You can cast them once when you enter an area, or use Eternal Laboratory to pre-cast them, and forget about them until you log off or die.

To the OP:
I agree that aura should be a weaker version of personal buff that is shared across other nearby players. Making auras stand-alone buff makes them mandatory if character is capable of running them even if being solo. On the other hand, current reiteration of auras has such a pitiful range that most of the times other players are running without the aura benefit. This even further seal aura fate as single-player buff.

Aura could also be implemented in other ways, for example:
- Notable node in skill tree providing single-player buff with 2nd node past the notable that would make it aura but the benefit would be slightly lower than single player buff. This type of aura would also have standard range for all. This would also open potential for other passive nodes improving range or potential of auras up to the single-player strength.
- Auras could be turned into support gem "aura" that would apply different effects based on which gem is the aura support gem attached.
- Combination of skill + aura support gem and an passive points improving their effect from skill tree

I do think mana regen should be tied to mana reserved, that alone would fix auras if you ask me. I currently run with 200/s mana regen and auras that leave me with only 8% of my max mana and use only 1 offensive skill and I know that it's not exactly the most interesting way to play the game efficiently.

If mana regen was tied to mana reserved then having it scale down to 50% would be fair, meaning my current setup on having only 8% of my active mana would leave me with only 54% of my 200/s regen.

Possible keystones to augment the new system could me added, like having one near the Inner Force node that removes the mana regen malus but halves the effect of auras on yourself. Another near the leadership node (possibly connected) could remove the effect of auras on yourself as well as the regen malus and also increase the aura radii by a large %.



As for the gameplay of using only one skill over and over, I'm not entirely against it. It's what diablo 2 players liked and I like it too. However it doesn't have to be all or nothing. It's not always bad, builds that rely on charges need their charge generators, melee needs a single target and AOE, etc. The main problem is that a skill can be made so strong that it functions perfectly fine in any situation, being a good enough nuke, aoe, single target, whatever else, always.

Cooldowns aren't the answer though, they limit too much on what builds are possible. Resource management is the meat of the game and focusing on that is what's necessary. Say the longer a single skill is used, the more mana it costs, with a "cooldown" where the mana cost will decrease at the same rate it increased. This means either requiring mana potions (something almost no one ever uses), stacking massive amounts of mana (eldritch battery) or relying on alternate sources of damage in order to keep yourself in the fight.

A simple change and there you have it, encouraged but not enforced cooldowns to skills that the player has modified into rapid fire nukes. Combined with a change to mana regen with reservations up and min/maxing with as little diversity as possible would likely stop being the absolute strongest way to build a character.

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deteego a écrit :

Also ScrotieMcB, there isn't any evidence, whatsoever, that applying sane cooldowns on skills will effect pacing in aRPG (since it hasn't done that to any aRPG to date apart from TQ, which is a simple case of them putting the cooldowns way too high)

D3 had a shitload of cooldowns. And not just the throwaway ones like Smoke Screen. Archon, Wrath of the Berserker, Earthquake, Rain of Arrows, Sentry, Teleport, Ancient Spear, Fan of Knives... probably more, that's just off the top of my head.

I used Sentry pretty extensively in my Multishot build. Eventually I realized that timing was a waste, and to hold it back only if there were no monsters in range. Clocked my runs, proved myself correct. The other cooldown skills really aren't much different.

The only ones that actually managed to be interesting were Archon and WotB, because you were essentially a different character without them, so being on cooldown meant playing different. Of course, there were ways in that game to hopefully keep them up forever, ignoring that cooldown. Still, coming down off them sucked, and in Archon's case could very well hold up progress.

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

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deteego a écrit :

Also ScrotieMcB, there isn't any evidence, whatsoever, that applying sane cooldowns on skills will effect pacing in aRPG (since it hasn't done that to any aRPG to date apart from TQ, which is a simple case of them putting the cooldowns way too high)

D3 had a shitload of cooldowns. And not just the throwaway ones like Smoke Screen. Archon, Wrath of the Berserker, Earthquake, Rain of Arrows, Sentry, Teleport, Ancient Spear, Fan of Knives... probably more, that's just off the top of my head.

Yes and?

This didn't effect the combat gameplay negatively. D3 actually has some of the best gameplay combat out of any aRPG (it actually has the action in the aRPG). Its one of the few redeeming qualities of D3

D3 also has zero cooldown abilities as well, its just mixed

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

I used Sentry pretty extensively in my Multishot build. Eventually I realized that timing was a waste, and to hold it back only if there were no monsters in range. Clocked my runs, proved myself correct. The other cooldown skills really aren't much different.

The only ones that actually managed to be interesting were Archon and WotB, because you were essentially a different character without them, so being on cooldown meant playing different. Of course, there were ways in that game to hopefully keep them up forever, ignoring that cooldown. Still, coming down off them sucked, and in Archon's case could very well hold up progress.

These are general balance qualms, which are being fixed. Its not an issue with the CD system at all

I think the real problem here is you're looking to turn Ethereal Knives into Fan of Knives.

If you were talking about putting a cooldown on Spell Totems, or Righteous Fire, or some new skill gem that transformed you into a werewolf (awesome!), then a cooldown might make sense. But you're aiming to take a bunch of skills down to an Ancient Spear level of crappy.

Removing auras or altering them too much would have serious repercussions at this point in time. (content would have to be rebalanced completely)
The only thing we can actually hope for, is to get new auras implemented into the game.
The more auras, the more choices we have, instead of everyone running around with the same old auras (even in parties).

What they should change about auras though, is to remove the reduced mana support gem out of the game, and just lower the mana cost of all auras to 70% of their current value (imitating the reduced mana gem).
Using an aura without reduced mana is just dumb, but putting in reduced mana for all your auras doesnt make you look smart either, its a fucking nobrainer.
Every aura needs reduced mana support, there is nothing special about it, no choices involved, nothing. Just remove that thing already and lower basecost of auras to 70% (that way we dont have to rebalance the content).

CD on main attack skills will only make 6L items mandatory so ppl can link 2-3 LA gems to 4-3 support gems.
Skills gems are not balanced: certain skills r stronger than others so ppl will go with the tactic i described above.
Adding CD will destroy the concept of building characters in this game. How do you intend (for example) to build your ranger if you r forced to utilize LA, Split arrow, PA, BA, IS at the same time? (obviously you wont be casting spells because your bow skill is on CD)


I could add more but arguments described above seem enough to me.

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bvnl a écrit :

CD on main attack skills will only make 6L items mandatory so ppl can link 2-3 LA gems to 4-3 support gems.
Skills gems are not balanced: certain skills r stronger than others so ppl will go with the tactic i described above.
Adding CD will destroy the concept of building characters in this game. How do you intend (for example) to build your ranger if you r forced to utilize LA, Split arrow, PA, BA, IS at the same time? (obviously you wont be casting spells because your bow skill is on CD)


I could add more but arguments described above seem enough to me.

Uh, the cooldown is not global?

You use LA, LA goes on cooldown. At this point in time, you would have some other skill (lets say poison arrow) which would use. There is also an assumption that you will have an active skill that will have zero cooldown (I am not advocating putting a cooldown on every skill)

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

If you were talking about putting a cooldown on Spell Totems, or Righteous Fire, or some new skill gem that transformed you into a werewolf (awesome!), then a cooldown might make sense. But you're aiming to take a bunch of skills down to an Ancient Spear level of crappy.

I don't see how I am advocating this at all

Originally you claimed that you dont like skills with cooldown because they effect pacing, I stated that this was false

Now you are claiming that it will make the skill weaker, well yeah thats the kinda the point, but we are making it weaker in the sense it now has a cooldown, the actual strength of the skill is the same (and I have been saying it can even be increased)

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deteego a écrit :

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bvnl a écrit :

CD on main attack skills will only make 6L items mandatory so ppl can link 2-3 LA gems to 4-3 support gems.
Skills gems are not balanced: certain skills r stronger than others so ppl will go with the tactic i described above.
Adding CD will destroy the concept of building characters in this game. How do you intend (for example) to build your ranger if you r forced to utilize LA, Split arrow, PA, BA, IS at the same time? (obviously you wont be casting spells because your bow skill is on CD)


I could add more but arguments described above seem enough to me.

Uh, the cooldown is not global?

You use LA, LA goes on cooldown. At this point in time, you would have some other skill (lets say poison arrow) which would use. There is also an assumption that you will have an active skill that will have zero cooldown (I am not advocating putting a cooldown on every skill)

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ScrotieMcB a écrit :

If you were talking about putting a cooldown on Spell Totems, or Righteous Fire, or some new skill gem that transformed you into a werewolf (awesome!), then a cooldown might make sense. But you're aiming to take a bunch of skills down to an Ancient Spear level of crappy.

I don't see how I am advocating this at all

Originally you claimed that you dont like skills with cooldown because they effect pacing, I stated that this was false

Now you are claiming that it will make the skill weaker, well yeah thats the kinda the point, but we are making it weaker in the sense it now has a cooldown, the actual strength of the skill is the same (and I have been saying it can even be increased)

Just a thought here but if you were to take, let's say FP, and make that skill have a CD, but bumping it's damage output by say..15%..wouldn't that in the end just make the damage over time end up roughly the same? the only consequence you'll get is having people being more vulnerable to incoming damage and having to spec for 2-3 different skills? don't really see the benefit gained here.