The 4 stash tab that free to players get is just not enough anymore.

"

MrTremere a écrit :

Sure, we'll stop complaining about the amount of tabs as soon as GGG stops marketting itself as not being P2W.
In the meantime, please understand that trying to get GGG to commit on what they are anouncing isn't the same as being entitled.
Hell, we don't even require the removal of all P2W elements, simply a reestimation of what is the minimal amount of tabs in order for it to be considered not forcing players to buy P2W stuff.

This argument comes up every month.

Summary is:
1) Not everyone agrees with your definition of 'win'.
2) Tabs do not unlock content, only make you more efficient at it. So F2P (since literally every piece of content in the game can be accessed without spending money).
3) P2W != Pay for convenience. Thats QoL. If a F2P game couldn't charge for QoL, the model would be crap.

So for me (and for a lot here), stash tabs do not constitute P2W.

Again, you can theoretically (and realistically) do all content with the 4 free tabs. You can mule for items on top of that (I don't know if people have just forgotten or are too young but this was a standard way to manage inventory space in D2 era games). If you spend more than a month playing PoE, you should buy something. If you cannot afford the 5$ it takes, then your life must be difficult and that's fair enough but you can't combine that with entitlement.

~Myth

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MrTremere a écrit :

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Mythkiller a écrit :

(...)

Would you be willing to play next league with a sinlge non-premium stash tab, then, to prove your point?

No, I have made the choice to pay for the convenience.

You have chosen not to (using you to represent 4 tab owners here).

Possible != want to.

If you're asking if its possible? Aila wins the SSFHC 100 race every league with 4 tabs. Why? Because he has worked out a system to work within his limitation.

~Myth

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MrTremere a écrit :

Following your reasoning, selling a double-XP bonus would be fine too, right?
I mean, it doesn't unlock content, only makes you more efficient at it?
Same with a 50% damage bonus?

How is double damage the same as tabs? I can't tell if you're just being intentionally hyperbolic now.

We are clearly arguing whether stash tabs constitute P2W. 'Win' being the operative word.

My argument is stash tabs are a 'Convenience'. Double damage is not. That is absolutely P2W.

I'll try to argue a different way.

Let us say we both started a brand new account today. And decided to race to Act 4.

In this very limited time, would stash tabs make a difference? No.
Would double XP/double damage? Yes

Now let us extend the same scenario to endgame. Now let us say I have a 100 tabs, you have 4.

Option 1: You spend a ton of time hoarding/organizing/muling etc to manage your limited space. I just map. I get ahead because my time is being spent more efficiently.

Option 2: You are incredibly careful of what you pick up and only pick up absolutely essential things. Both of us just map. We stay neck to neck.

You as a 4-tab player have an avenue, an option to compete.

With double damage/xp there is no option for the free player to keep up. Hence P2W. Did that make my point a bit clearer?

Argument in this thread is "I want Option 1 (edit: to be more efficient) but I dont want to/cant pay." Sorry, life is tough sometimes.

~Myth

in trade league its pay to win no matter what excuse u give

Aila can achieve 1st 100 with the basic 4 stash tabs....

good for him i am not Aila

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MrTremere a écrit :

1) You didn't talk about Premium tabs at all. What about them?
2) What if, instead of 4 tabs, it was just one? Would you still say I am not at a significant disadvantage?

Paying players use premium tabs to make trade very convenient.

Free players have the below options:
1) Don't trade
2) Use Acquisition and become good and fast at it so you can keep up.
3) Play SSF and this doesn't matter anymore

Even with 2, yea the paid player is probably a little faster but very likely comparable (Yes, i used acquisition for a long time before premium tabs were a think).

For the number of tabs, my argument unfortunately will be the same.

4 is a number of tabs where someone has proven they can not only do the longest grind in the game but can do it faster and more efficiently than anyone else in the entire league. We are talking about a level of grinding that 99.99% of the players dont even ever do or can do or need to. So for the average player, 4 should be plenty.

Honestly, I could look through my league end tabs and 90% of the garbage in there is unnecessary that I pick up because I have bad, hoarding habits. This is true of everyone in the game. There is nothing you NEED to store to beat every piece of content in the game that takes more than 4 tabs. Things you WANT to store is a different story.

~Myth