The 4 stash tab that free to players get is just not enough anymore.

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

It's curious that you and the "gentleman" above you consider 100 hours of something as "entitled".
I mean, I laughed when the guy above you equated that to a $100k car.

Someone who works minimum wage isn't going to be able to afford a car like that after 100 hours, but someone who makes an executive salary could afford 2 or 3 of those in the same time. I'm pretty sure with 100 hours of work, they are entitled to having a few expensive cars.

And we're talking about a virtual video game item here ...why should someone spend 500 hours to get one? Do you have no concept of time? 500 hours ....20 days /played to get a single item. The fact anyone would call that "minimum" or an "adequate" time to get something is astounding to me.

I'm pretty sure the most legendary items in the game World of Warcraft never took even a fraction of that time ( No, I know they didn't ).

It just amazes me at the irony of calling someone entitled, for wanting to have something done after even 100 hours of doing something, let alone "just" 30 hours. Why would a head hunter cost a bare minimum of $5,000 to acquire?

And people whine, moan, complain, and wonder why there are RMT groups out there.
Just looking at this conversation proves that I'm in the wrong field of business.

The devs nor the game owe you anything. You are so entitles, working 100 hours also doesnt entitle you to an expensive car either. Its like communist talking points which ends up you getting less than what you had let alone what you were asking for.

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

"

Relationship a écrit :

They design a game and make it free to play and people complain that there is stuff you can purchase for CONVENIENCE to make the games day to day tasks easier. You can trade in game so you don't need a premium tab, you can store maps in the 4 freely given tabs, currency is the same thing.

Sure it's easier to trade with a premium tab and it's easier to organize with currency and map tabs but the fact is they aren't a necessity for the game to be playable. Other than saving a little time it isn't some pay to win scheme.

People are confusing convenience with the term pay to win. Convenience is being able to do something you can do just easier. Pay to win is saying okay if you pay GGG $1,500 you get a fully build character that gains 3x the normal experience as the average player so you can be the first person to level 100

And some people conflate "Convenience" with utility.

Having running water to your house is not a "convenience", it's almost always the difference between living there ( or at all ) or not.

I don't consider stacking dozens and dozens of 10 or 20 bundles of currency into tabs as "part of the game" ...as much as it is a blatantly obvious scheme to punish players into buying more space. The same goes for why items still follow the "loot tetris" design philosophy. It's to punish / frustrate players enough that they give in and buy more space; or not compete with the dedicated players.

It's odd you used running water as a point of comparing considering every house has the plumbing but you have to pay for the water and electricity that allows it to be possible. It isn't provided for free even though the plumbing is? I guess it wasn't meant to be a part of life in this instance?

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed because in one case you HAVE TO PAY FOR THE RUNNING WATER AND ELECTRICITY. GGG if put into words you used would be that it's inconvenient because every time you want running water you have to go outside and pump it yourself. So you can have running water like your neighbors for completely free you just have to spend more time getting it.


I can see you just liking playing the devils advocate here but the reality is they provide everything to be successful in this game they just let players who spend money save time. That is all it is. There's no direct advantage of a player with a Map tab than a player without a map tab other than time. They both can use maps, they can play maps, they can stash maps, and they both can level in maps.

"

Thesuffering a écrit :

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

It's curious that you and the "gentleman" above you consider 100 hours of something as "entitled".
I mean, I laughed when the guy above you equated that to a $100k car.

Someone who works minimum wage isn't going to be able to afford a car like that after 100 hours, but someone who makes an executive salary could afford 2 or 3 of those in the same time. I'm pretty sure with 100 hours of work, they are entitled to having a few expensive cars.

And we're talking about a virtual video game item here ...why should someone spend 500 hours to get one? Do you have no concept of time? 500 hours ....20 days /played to get a single item. The fact anyone would call that "minimum" or an "adequate" time to get something is astounding to me.

I'm pretty sure the most legendary items in the game World of Warcraft never took even a fraction of that time ( No, I know they didn't ).

It just amazes me at the irony of calling someone entitled, for wanting to have something done after even 100 hours of doing something, let alone "just" 30 hours. Why would a head hunter cost a bare minimum of $5,000 to acquire?

And people whine, moan, complain, and wonder why there are RMT groups out there.
Just looking at this conversation proves that I'm in the wrong field of business.

The devs nor the game owe you anything. You are so entitles, working 100 hours also doesnt entitle you to an expensive car either. Its like communist talking points which ends up you getting less than what you had let alone what you were asking for.

Thank you for not reading, trying to argue against, or anything in regards to the context of the thing you quoted.

Good read.

"

Thesuffering a écrit :

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

It's curious that you and the "gentleman" above you consider 100 hours of something as "entitled".
I mean, I laughed when the guy above you equated that to a $100k car.

Someone who works minimum wage isn't going to be able to afford a car like that after 100 hours, but someone who makes an executive salary could afford 2 or 3 of those in the same time. I'm pretty sure with 100 hours of work, they are entitled to having a few expensive cars.

And we're talking about a virtual video game item here ...why should someone spend 500 hours to get one? Do you have no concept of time? 500 hours ....20 days /played to get a single item. The fact anyone would call that "minimum" or an "adequate" time to get something is astounding to me.

I'm pretty sure the most legendary items in the game World of Warcraft never took even a fraction of that time ( No, I know they didn't ).

It just amazes me at the irony of calling someone entitled, for wanting to have something done after even 100 hours of doing something, let alone "just" 30 hours. Why would a head hunter cost a bare minimum of $5,000 to acquire?

And people whine, moan, complain, and wonder why there are RMT groups out there.
Just looking at this conversation proves that I'm in the wrong field of business.

The devs nor the game owe you anything. You are so entitles, working 100 hours also doesnt entitle you to an expensive car either. Its like communist talking points which ends up you getting less than what you had let alone what you were asking for.

Whoa, back up the "I'm a victim and it hurts" card.
I didn't call anyone anything, that was someone else.
I was however stating that a whole lot of b.s. is posted and there is nothing wrong with calling it out.

And if someone wants to throw out some super personal, highly sensitive, unnecessary health information to random people, in an online forum about video games... then they may have to deal with a response they dont like.

Even the person with the issue didn't take issue with being called out, he merely backed it up as truth.

You might want to leave some of that oversensitive victim nonsense at the door. No one is attacking you.

"

Relationship a écrit :

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

"

Relationship a écrit :

They design a game and make it free to play and people complain that there is stuff you can purchase for CONVENIENCE to make the games day to day tasks easier. You can trade in game so you don't need a premium tab, you can store maps in the 4 freely given tabs, currency is the same thing.

Sure it's easier to trade with a premium tab and it's easier to organize with currency and map tabs but the fact is they aren't a necessity for the game to be playable. Other than saving a little time it isn't some pay to win scheme.

People are confusing convenience with the term pay to win. Convenience is being able to do something you can do just easier. Pay to win is saying okay if you pay GGG $1,500 you get a fully build character that gains 3x the normal experience as the average player so you can be the first person to level 100

And some people conflate "Convenience" with utility.

Having running water to your house is not a "convenience", it's almost always the difference between living there ( or at all ) or not.

I don't consider stacking dozens and dozens of 10 or 20 bundles of currency into tabs as "part of the game" ...as much as it is a blatantly obvious scheme to punish players into buying more space. The same goes for why items still follow the "loot tetris" design philosophy. It's to punish / frustrate players enough that they give in and buy more space; or not compete with the dedicated players.

It's odd you used running water as a point of comparing considering every house has the plumbing but you have to pay for the water and electricity that allows it to be possible. It isn't provided for free even though the plumbing is? I guess it wasn't meant to be a part of life in this instance?

Your comparison is fundamentally flawed because in one case you HAVE TO PAY FOR THE RUNNING WATER AND ELECTRICITY. GGG if put into words you used would be that it's inconvenient because every time you want running water you have to go outside and pump it yourself. So you can have running water like your neighbors for completely free you just have to spend more time getting it.

Paying for water or not depends entirely on the culture in which you live in. That's a separate, but applicable, argument to make. There are plenty of places in the world where you don't have to pay for running water, including pipes and whatnot.

The point of the analogy was in relation to the concept of convenience and utility, which people seem to gloss over the definitions of ( just like things relating to entitlement ). Convenience is not the ability to store more of something compared to before, or to have something integral that wasn't there before.

If you had a lake of water 20 miles from you, that you had to walk to every day, that's not an inconvenience. As such, having a water pipe drawing out water from that lake right to your door step is not a convenience, as much as it is a utility. Convenience is the effortless ability to do something you would otherwise do anyway; a utility is the ability to do something at all, and of which is neither effortless or troublesome, it simply is.

Having the ability to store currency into your stash tab is not a convenience, it's a matter of fact, and requirement push upon you of the game. Going from a normal tab to a currency tab is not a convenience, as you are still doing, and being asked of, the same behavior. You're simply able to store more, and be punished less, by having a better version. Ergo, having a premium tab instead of a normal tab is not a convenience, it's a utility, because you otherwise cannot do something without it.

4 tabs, in that regard, is a limited space used to make sure players pay for more; not because it provides convenience, but because merely on the limiting factor of the space allotment itself, as well as the extra effort it requires you to spend to deal with it. So just like the person who has to go 20 miles for water, it's an unnecessary hardship that no logical person would put them selves into; they simply would move closer to the water source. Having the water pumped, like having a currency / map tab ..simply allows them the utility to be where they are and/or to survive at all in that situation.

It's not convenient to have tools that make surviving easier, it's a necessity.

If we were talking about an option to auto pickup items that fall on the ground ( like a Chinese dragon pet ) ..then that would be different.

Why all the nonsense talk. If you don't like this then "DON'T PLAY THE FRICKIN GAME!". Such pointless arguing over PoE. The 4 free stash tabs has never ever been enough if you want to play this arpg seriously or with any longevity. it's 100% working as intended. Let's see if GGG has 100 employees and the average salery is 30k to 40k then GGG has to generate 3 to 4 million a year or 8.2K to 11.9K per day to cover saleries. Plus everything to run the business operation + all server costs, etc. etc. so more likely closer to 5 million a year is needed. And now Tencent is getting 70% of any profit (and you better believe they want a sizable return on their investment) and the pressure is on to generate large revenues.

"

BloodBaneBoneBreaker a écrit :

"

Thesuffering a écrit :

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

It's curious that you and the "gentleman" above you consider 100 hours of something as "entitled".
I mean, I laughed when the guy above you equated that to a $100k car.

Someone who works minimum wage isn't going to be able to afford a car like that after 100 hours, but someone who makes an executive salary could afford 2 or 3 of those in the same time. I'm pretty sure with 100 hours of work, they are entitled to having a few expensive cars.

And we're talking about a virtual video game item here ...why should someone spend 500 hours to get one? Do you have no concept of time? 500 hours ....20 days /played to get a single item. The fact anyone would call that "minimum" or an "adequate" time to get something is astounding to me.

I'm pretty sure the most legendary items in the game World of Warcraft never took even a fraction of that time ( No, I know they didn't ).

It just amazes me at the irony of calling someone entitled, for wanting to have something done after even 100 hours of doing something, let alone "just" 30 hours. Why would a head hunter cost a bare minimum of $5,000 to acquire?

And people whine, moan, complain, and wonder why there are RMT groups out there.
Just looking at this conversation proves that I'm in the wrong field of business.

The devs nor the game owe you anything. You are so entitles, working 100 hours also doesnt entitle you to an expensive car either. Its like communist talking points which ends up you getting less than what you had let alone what you were asking for.

Whoa, back up the "I'm a victim and it hurts" card.
I didn't call anyone anything, that was someone else.
I was however stating that a whole lot of b.s. is posted and there is nothing wrong with calling it out.

And if someone wants to throw out some super personal, highly sensitive, unnecessary health information to random people, in an online forum about video games... then they may have to deal with a response they dont like.

Even the person with the issue didn't take issue with being called out, he merely backed it up as truth.

You might want to leave some of that oversensitive victim nonsense at the door. No one is attacking you.

I find this post highly ironic. I think you quoted the wrong person.

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

It's curious that you and the "gentleman" above you consider 100 hours of something as "entitled".
I mean, I laughed when the guy above you equated that to a $100k car.

My mistake, I didn't realize Lamborghinis were so cheap. I was shooting for more like a million dollars, but I was too lazy to check prices. Perhaps a Bugatti Veyron would be more appropriate.

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

And we're talking about a virtual video game item here ...why should someone spend 500 hours to get one? Do you have no concept of time? 500 hours ....20 days /played to get a single item. The fact anyone would call that "minimum" or an "adequate" time to get something is astounding to me.

Why indeed. The item has an interesting and fairly powerful gimmick which will surely boost the performance of any build. At the same time it's also unpredictable enough that I have a hard time imagining a build that would not work without a Headhunter. Why this guy is so obsessed over it or other items in the same price range is beyond me.

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

It just amazes me at the irony of calling someone entitled, for wanting to have something done after even 100 hours of doing something, let alone "just" 30 hours. Why would a head hunter cost a bare minimum of $5,000 to acquire?

Supply and demand. I may not understand why the item is so coveted, but I do understand that it's very rare. If you go on the trade section and search for Headhunter, you'll see that prices start at around 45 exa. It would take me about 2000 hours to acquire that much currency, but I'm a fairly slow player. It takes me 10-ish minutes to clear a map and I've heard that the really fast players can do it in two minutes.

This game is intentionally designed so that certain items are exceedingly rare. Those items give the hardcore no-life players something to chase. They are not intended as something every player can acquire. So yes, it's extremely entitled to want one for a fraction of the effort the really good players put into it. It's like calling Bugattin and saying "Hey, you have those nice cars and I'd really like one. I've been working very hard at Burger King so do you think you could sell me one for $20k?".

There are other games which are designed so that every player can reasonable obtain everything in the game. Diablo III or Torchlight II for example. Consider playing something else than Path of Exile if you can't accept the fact that some items in the game may be unobtainable for you.

So you are making the argument that all utilities should be free, how does that make sense?

The root of the argument is that the game isn't pay to win. Because no matter the argument: A person with a premium tab and person B without one can do the same things just person A can do it quicker/easier. Sure, they make people frustrated by making them do trivial things repeatedly but that doesn't mean that it's pay to win at all.

"

JoeShmo a écrit :

I find this post highly ironic. I think you quoted the wrong person.

Lol. It seems I did.