POE - The only ARPG with no loot: this needs to change

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grepman a écrit :

nonsense. look at ssf players with experience play the game for 100 hours. see what they loot. take random 100 hours of raizqt play in ssf and see how much shit he dropped

I don't care about their drop. I can see what drops for me. It's 99.999% trash.

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grepman a écrit :

this must be an item from the last temp league. temp league items are a whole different story. my point was that the more unique drops, the more they devalue their prices, which for some reason you're trying to deny. it wasnt specifically about shavs.

And it is good. If I can't get something playing for several hundreds of hours, it may as well don't exist at all.

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morbo a écrit :

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Oblitus a écrit :

SSF doesn't really fix anything since it offers nothing you can't have without it.

SSF "improves" the looting experience, by forcing you to pay attention to more drops, than you would have in trade leagues. Drops matter more, but this is a shitty "fix" that only work for a subset of players.

In any case, my biggest problem with looting is that playing early easy game has a much better risk/reward ratio than playing difficult late game ("difficult" in both gameplay and price of access). Outside of a handful of specific items, everything drops in easy maps.

Eg. this is the best sword I've ever found, and it can drop in a lvl 59 zone ("of penetrating" is the highest affix). Make that T1 maps, so that you can add quantity/quality to the zone and you are good to go. It's an endgame sword, that I'll unlikely find a replacement for no matter how much red maps I run.

The tiered affix system makes this risk/reward so skewed. Maybe after the infinite dungeon, GGG needs to remove the tiered system and introduce smooth / incremental scaling of affixes. Higher zones drop slightly better items in small increments.

this is an issue of rare item progression AND clearspeed dominating, even with SSF

poe item progression, again, effectively stops in early to mid maps - content widely accessible to the worst power level builds there are. there are items which have high ivl, but they are for most part irrelevant in order to tackle on any non-tip-of-the-iceberg content...

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Oblitus a écrit :

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grepman a écrit :

the real issue is that its always better to farm currency and then buy what you need because of item inflation.

It's not item inflation. It's the fact that you can't rely on drops.

well if you look at ssf ppl you obviously can rely on drops in order to beat the game. You cant rely on drops to be worth anything at all in a trade environment however, and that is because of item inflation like grepman says.


Its a massive problem because poes reward system revolves around items, so when people write off items as having no value the structure of incentives in the game fundamentally breaks down. GGG worry about player retention in leagues, but a massive part of that is that the incentive to play the game is being removed by their idiotic drop rates and div cards across the board. It feels like they dont even understand it because they just keep making it worse. When an incursion ends the loot that piles out is ridiculous, its completely absurd. Oh look, 4 uniques and 30 rares just fell on the floor, thats probably an endgame build sitting there and I dont rly want to pick any of it up cause its basically 2 trips to town to end up with 6 alterations, and I just spent 300 of them rolling 1 flask.

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Snorkle_uk a écrit :

well if you look at ssf ppl you obviously can rely on drops in order to beat the game.

Sure, if you play a meta build without build-enabling items. Or know the game very well (this generally includes the previous condition too).

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torturo a écrit :

But they were also usable by the mid-tier dedicated players with some wealth.

And every one of them was absolutely screwing themselves over; they'd have done better had they just traded their eternals off for 3-5 exalts and used it to buy currency.

Granted, the situation would, in fact, be different were there eternal orbs and not mirrors, because the whole "make thousands and thousands of exalts in mirror fees" thing wouldn't exist. But with both currencies in the game, eternal orbs served zero use to >99.999% of players beyond something to trade for something they could use.

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matto77 a écrit :

Firstly I never said that I expect to get a lot of doctor cards, I was saying that I don't like a play style that revolves around something that drops so rarely so I would like an alternative which involves actually looking for loot in maps that is somewhat viable.

Secondly, so you say that farming cards is "silly'... but agree that rares/uniques are largely worthless, but then think that the loot system is fine? Just wondering then, what do you even do in this game? You couldn't be farming for loot? And you aren't farming cards? And bosses are a waste of time soo...?

You're farming for loot. Just because NOT EVERY SINGLE RARE ITEM is worth a shitload doesn't mean you skip them all.

Assuming they have to all be valuable just shows an utter lack of understanding of economics. To explain, it's much like why uniques tend to be worthess: Atziri's Promise, for instance, is a REALLY good flask; almost all non-minion builds can pop it for a free, instant bump in DPS along with gaining some leech. Yet it's worthless in trade value, because you can only use one at once, but you get one like 50-60% of the time from Atziri (whom you run dozens or hundreds of times to farm a single Mortal Set)

So yeah, when the average map yields you 100+ rare items, and the average PLAYER can only equip 10, (plus jewels) most of them aren't gonna be valuable.

But most of my wealth in incursion league came from selling rare items. I just learned which basetypes to even pick up, (e.g, evasion chests are never worth it because QotF is >99% going to be better) and how to identify them. And these aren't "oh, I can sell this for one chaos;" I'd say every 100 maps I've run, I've found at least one rare worth multiple exalts, along with a few dozen items worth 10-100c.

This is FAR more common than praying to RNG for a silly Doctor card. And yes, if you spent a lot of time chaining Burial Chambers for that, you're silly: at least you could've chained Lair instead, as the drop rate is far, far higher for its card.

So yeah, the "problem" isn't with the game; the loot system, at least in terms for opportunities, is 100% perfectly fine. The problem is the number of players who are loud, but know next to nothing on how to play the game... But want the game changed to cater to their ignorance. Instead, they simply need to "git gud."

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Oblitus a écrit :

We don't want to trade. We want to loot.

Did you just entirely ignore my post? SSF is literally RIGHT THERE.

To repeat myself, expecting any game that allows trade to not make trading better for acquiring gear is just... Silly. There's hundreds of thousands of other players that are not you. You'd be silly to think that of all the players who'd get the "perfect drop" for your slot, it's going to be YOU. If you do think so... You probably also throw away all your money on the lottery, too.

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Oblitus a écrit :

Yes, it came from nowhere. Traded item has no soul.

Wooooow.

Just. Go. Play. SSF. Quit. Your. Whining.

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Oblitus a écrit :

SSF doesn't really fix anything since it offers nothing you can't have without it.

So... You just want the game to hand you all your items. How, exactly, does that have any more soul (still laughing at now New Age you got there) than trading for an item?

Playing in SSF you are in a ladder separate from all other players.

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Oblitus a écrit :

Sure, if you play a meta build without build-enabling items. Or know the game very well (this generally includes the previous condition too).

So... Your response is to then claim that even SSF wouldn't be "fair" because there are other players who know how to play the game better than you? No, SSF isn't dominated by "meta" builds, because most of them MANDATE trading to acquire very specific items. SSF ladders are dominated by those who cobble together something that works.

Again, it's not the fault of the game if you don't know how to play well. Git gud.

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ACGIFT a écrit :

But most of my wealth in incursion league came from selling rare items. I just learned which basetypes to even pick up, (e.g, evasion chests are never worth it because QotF is >99% going to be better) and how to identify them. And these aren't "oh, I can sell this for one chaos;" I'd say every 100 maps I've run, I've found at least one rare worth multiple exalts, along with a few dozen items worth 10-100c.

This is FAR more common than praying to RNG for a silly Doctor card. And yes, if you spent a lot of time chaining Burial Chambers for that, you're silly: at least you could've chained Lair instead, as the drop rate is far, far higher for its card.

Ah, now we have another name for cancer that is killing PoE.

PoE is ARPG. Not trading simulator. And I don't want to touch trading simulator even with a very long stick.

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ACGIFT a écrit :

Just. Go. Play. SSF. Quit. Your. Whining.

SSF. Is. Totallly. Broken. Because. Of. People. Like. You.

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morbo a écrit :

The fact that you can gear up for red map, by doing easy white maps, is laughable. The fact that in trade leagues you can buy everything (acces to content and/or gear), just by doing T1 maps, is not worthy the promo title of "hardcore gaem". The word "progression" doesn't even apply, when trading allows you to jump from Aqueduct farming into red maps.

And the fact, that running alched white maps actually yields FAR MORE currency/hour, than red maps (taking map rolling/buying costs into account). I could understand, if with strong enough build you could get ~5x more currency/hour from red maps (compared to white maps)! If you're wimp, run white maps and farm slower... But it isnt the case in PoE!
The harder content is, the less currency you gain from farming it, usually. That's the sad rule of PoE....

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MortalKombat3 a écrit :

And the fact, that running alched white maps actually yields FAR MORE currency/hour, than red maps ...

Yup, with red maps you usually end up in negative currency, if your plan is to progress through the atlas. Which would even make sense - farm white maps for currency to roll red ones - if there was any point running red maps. But outside of accessing Shaper & doing challenges, there is no good reason to ever run red maps. They cost too much to sustain and their risk/reward ratio is far worse than white/yellow ones.

Last time I checked, those racing to 100 were playing one or two shaped maps, that are easy & safe (U.Sea, Armoury...) and completely ignoring the whole inner circle on the Atlas. Not a great design.

Delve sounds promising, but if the dungeon will be stingy with drops/XP it will be just another thing that people play for "secondary" reasons (challenges, ladder).

Way too much misinformation here.

This entire thread needs a caveat: "POE - The only ARPG with no loot: IF YOU ARE IMPATIENT."

People who are claiming that you can't play specific builds on SSF are clueless. If you are impatient and want to only play the league for a couple of weeks then yes this is the case. If you actually want to play a full 2-3 months the possibilities open up quite a bit.

Loot is okay in this game. There does need to be some fix to MF (imo) as it is THE defacto way to get more items relatively easy after all of the power creep.

Stop talking out of your ass if you've never played POE for the items and have focused all of your effort on currency and then complain about it. You know nothing, John Snow.

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Prizy a écrit :

If you actually want to play a full 2-3 months

And can play 10 hours a day, that is.