Why Are Bows So Weak Now? (Phys build)

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ganjarak a écrit :

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Ceri a écrit :

Yeah ganjarak, I touched upon that in my last paragraph.

Thing is: you can't just go ahead and massively buff physical damage on bows/gear - it would make elemental damage insanely overpowered. If you want much more physical damage - either on gear or in the tree - you will need to redesign how physical damage is linked to elemental damage, how skills convert from one to the other and so on.

See, that's the problem right there.


I should't care about elemental builds and how bows affect them, and vice-versa.

If anything, then the elemental skill mechanics should be changed, because, based on how imbalanced it is between elemental builds and pure physical.

Buff existing phys nodes? Elemental builds will benefit from that as well won't they?

The idea is that in order to maximize your dps you need to take into account all damage sources. You cannot expect to do as much damage with purely physical damage as someone who is taking advantage of all damage types. If it was possible to do as much pure physical damage with a bow that I can do in hybrid ele/physical then you would completely shred enemy armor and negate their resistance to physical at the same time. Pure elemental damage builds cannot really compare to the dps of a good hybrid build either. Maximizing both physical and elemental damage bonuses will lead to the highest damage numbers. This seems intuitive.

You'd have to massively buff phys nodes to make them worth taking for elemental builds. Most ele builds using an ele thicket shouldn't even take an 18% phys dmg node.

I seriously think the best way is to make Melee Phys Dmg support just general Phys Dmg support.

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thepmrc a écrit :

You cannot expect to do as much damage with purely physical damage as someone who is taking advantage of all damage types.

You look at this mechanic as if it's an unchangeable matter.
Released and finished game.

While I am looking at this as a subject to change, a broken mechanic.
A game in it's Beta.
Thus bumping the topic to catch the developers attention is my first duty until this is noticed.

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ganjarak a écrit :

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thepmrc a écrit :

You cannot expect to do as much damage with purely physical damage as someone who is taking advantage of all damage types.

You look at this mechanic as if it's an unchangeable matter.
Released and finished game.

While I am looking at this as a subject to change, a broken mechanic.
A game in it's Beta.
Thus bumping the topic to catch the developers attention is my first duty until this is noticed.

I am not looking at it as unchangeable, I am looking at it logically. Nothing more. Diversity of damage types will always be superior to focusing on one single type of damage.

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thepmrc a écrit :

Diversity of damage types will always be superior to focusing on one single type of damage.

Ahem..

Frost Witch
Frost Templar
Fire Witch
Fire Templar
Lighting Arrow Ranger/Shadow

Actually, (in most cases) focusing on 1 type of damage makes the build that much stronger and viable end game, combined with smart node choices.

Would a Frost Witch choose fire nodes? Hell no, so why would I as a Phys Bow user focus on anything besides strong Phys bows and passives?

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thepmrc a écrit :

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ganjarak a écrit :

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thepmrc a écrit :

You cannot expect to do as much damage with purely physical damage as someone who is taking advantage of all damage types.

You look at this mechanic as if it's an unchangeable matter.
Released and finished game.

While I am looking at this as a subject to change, a broken mechanic.
A game in it's Beta.
Thus bumping the topic to catch the developers attention is my first duty until this is noticed.

I am not looking at it as unchangeable, I am looking at it logically. Nothing more. Diversity of damage types will always be superior to focusing on one single type of damage.

Apparently the saying is "Jack of all Trades, Master of all" now then? :P

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ganjarak a écrit :

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thepmrc a écrit :

Diversity of damage types will always be superior to focusing on one single type of damage.

Ahem..

Frost Witch
Frost Templar
Fire Witch
Fire Templar
Lighting Arrow Ranger/Shadow

Actually, (in most cases) focusing on 1 type of damage makes the build that much stronger and viable end game, combined with smart node choices.

Would a Frost Witch choose fire nodes? Hell no, so why would I as a Phys Bow user focus on anything besides strong Phys bows and passives?

Builds like freezing pulse don't take any other elemental passives (hell, even the GOOD ones don't even take cold damage % nodes) because those nodes don't affect the damage at all. A better comparison between your idea of a "physical" ranger and a frost build would be a freezing pulse character that doesn't invest in any critical nodes because they choose to be pure cold% damage. That would make their build almost useless compared to somebody who had researched how other mechanics influence his main damage skill.

The reason bow builds have such a liking to elemental damage is because all elementals (whether it be weapon elemental % or flat elemental damage) adds on to bow skills, unlike where they don't do anything for a fireball build. The reasons a frost witch doesn't choose fire nodes is because it doesn't add any damage (read any, not LITTLE) to their main skill.

Based on your witch - takes crit nodes comparison I have to agree.

So the witch uses power charges right? Crit damage and all that?

A ranger / bow user uses frenzy charges, which do what? Increase attack speed.

So I should be taking those attack speed nodes then right? So I did, and nowhere near the damage of a witch, point proven. Phys bows are weak and the nodes supporting the build are useless.

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ganjarak a écrit :

Based on your witch - takes crit nodes comparison I have to agree.

So the witch uses power charges right? Crit damage and all that?

A ranger / bow user uses frenzy charges, which do what? Increase attack speed.

So I should be taking those attack speed nodes then right? So I did, and nowhere near the damage of a witch, point proven. Phys bows are weak and the nodes supporting the build are useless.

^

Lets also not forget the GS marauder, straight forward, get health, get strength, get godly maul with a few maul and stun passives.

Should be just about as straight forward with physical ranger.

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ganjarak a écrit :

Based on your witch - takes crit nodes comparison I have to agree.

So the witch uses power charges right? Crit damage and all that?

A ranger / bow user uses frenzy charges, which do what? Increase attack speed.

So I should be taking those attack speed nodes then right? So I did, and nowhere near the damage of a witch, point proven. Phys bows are weak and the nodes supporting the build are useless.

No it doesn't make sense. You take stuff that multiplies your damage, not adds another 8% to your 82%, or even worse 4% to your 98%.
BtW why frenzy if you have access to much better burning arrow which just adds another 30% of damage, and 40% as DoT. And with much cheaper mana cost. Why not split arrow with built in GMP at 80% damage efficiency. Bloodrage? Noyou are not usingitwith frenzy, Life leach? then again why notmoreeffective skill like rain of arrows or split arrow? Why you chose Frenzy?
It only makes sense, after picking skill with already huge damage efficiency, to start multiplying that damage. Critical chance, hatred,critical damage,additionalmana and mana regeneration.
Here is my variant of physical build. And lvl 72.
Main support skills blood rage, hatred. Main AoE Rain of arrows+concentrated effect+additional fire damage+Projectile speed+optional chance to flee(or blind).
Burning arrow lvl1 with additional fire damage for rares. And frenzy for boss fights or for situations where blood rage too risky.