Why Are Bows So Weak Now? (Phys build)

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B_TAHKE a écrit :

No it doesn't make sense. You take stuff that multiplies your damage, not adds another 8% to your 82%, or even worse 4% to your 98%.
BtW why frenzy if you have access to much better burning arrow which just adds another 30% of damage, and 40% as DoT. And with much cheaper mana cost. Why not split arrow with built in GMP at 80% damage efficiency. Bloodrage? Noyou are not usingitwith frenzy, Life leach? then again why notmoreeffective skill like rain of arrows or split arrow? Why you chose Frenzy?
It only makes sense, after picking skill with already huge damage efficiency, to start multiplying that damage. Critical chance, hatred,critical damage,additionalmana and mana regeneration.
Here is my variant of physical build. And lvl 72.
Main support skills blood rage, hatred. Main AoE Rain of arrows+concentrated effect+additional fire damage+Projectile speed+optional chance to flee(or blind).
Burning arrow lvl1 with additional fire damage for rares. And frenzy for boss fights or for situations where blood rage too risky.

I dont want to derail this thread anymore than it already is but that build...much fun!

Also, Frenzy overtake Burning Arrow in DPS at around gem lvl7 or 8. Frenzy double-dips into the buffs, first from charges and secondly to itself. Burning arrow is very good skill, cheap and effective, to level up but you will want to switch to Frenzy at around lvl50 (or whenever you have 6 charges and mana leech/regen to sustain heavy mana usage).

The main point of the OP is that physical build--pure physical build, no added elemental damage, no crit--should be feasible. It is not. It wont ever be. Self-imposed restrictions such as no elemental damage will always be on detriment of performance. You cant expect buff to general set of skills/passive nodes based on your sub-optimal choice. The reason is rather simple because if a buff is given based on such feedback, all those optimized builds would benefit disproportionately more, and would become overpowered.

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ganjarak a écrit :

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thepmrc a écrit :

Diversity of damage types will always be superior to focusing on one single type of damage.

Ahem..

Frost Witch
Frost Templar
Fire Witch
Fire Templar
Lighting Arrow Ranger/Shadow

Actually, (in most cases) focusing on 1 type of damage makes the build that much stronger and viable end game, combined with smart node choices.

Would a Frost Witch choose fire nodes? Hell no, so why would I as a Phys Bow user focus on anything besides strong Phys bows and passives?

I guess that is why good FP builds use added lightning damage and shock chance...
also lightning arrow is maximized in efficiency with very high physical damage in addition to elemental damage.

As said before this would be like building a frost witch and completely ignoring crit chance / crit damage because you wanted to just stack elemental damage and felt that you should be just as efficient as someone who built more appropriately.

I think i just need magnates and lioneyes with my current broadstroke and I will have a perma stun physical bow build. Which is good enough for me as a pure physical, who cares if it takes a few hits longer when youre way safer

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B_TAHKE a écrit :

Why you chose Frenzy?

You are right, I shouldn't be using a skill that is in the game.

Guess we can /lock the thread now.

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Baron01 a écrit :

Also, Frenzy overtake Burning Arrow in DPS at around gem lvl7 or 8. Frenzy double-dips into the buffs, first from charges and secondly to itself. Burning arrow is very good skill, cheap and effective, to level up but you will want to switch to Frenzy at around lvl50 (or whenever you have 6 charges and mana leech/regen to sustain heavy mana usage).

BA, LA and Ice Shot also double dip- first into physical damage (which is then converted to ele), and then into elemental damage (which buffs the already buffed converted portion). This allows you to benefit from Weapon Elemental Damage support, which gives the massive "More" damage multiplicative buff- one of only two ways to get this as a bow user (other is Point Blank). Also, make no mistake, LA/BA/IS are PHYSICAL build skills. The damage they deal is a large portion elemental, but all of that elemental damage comes out of the physical. This means you have to build like a physical bower in order to use the elemental skills effectively- plus perhaps a handful of opportune passives if you pass near them, like Arcing blows, but that's about it.

An elemental build requires stacking flat added damage boosts from gear and the fastest weapon you find, eg Quilrain. All the bow skills other then Elemental Hit are physical skills- converted to ele or not, they are all based on your physical damage. You can use them at lvl 1 to propagate your ele bonus damage, but Elemental Hit will be the way to go once you can get it.

It seems to me that swearing off LA, IS, etc, as "elemental" skills is simply denying yourself access to half your toolkit. Of course a phys build will seem gimped if you are not using the best skills for that build!

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Rhyse a écrit :

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You missed the point. I was only addressing other poster's statement about Burning Arrow. Frenzy is also single-target DPS while you compare it to LA or IS, which are more focused on AOE.

However, you made a good support for disparity some people claim in this thread between physical and elemental builds. Where elemental builds benefit at all fronts, physical damage builds suffer or at least are lackluster compared to elemental option.

GGG already admitted there is disparity between elemental and physical damage mods and how they are modified, or not in case of physical damage, by the passive nodes. All elemental damage on every piece of gear is added onto a weapon/skill and modified by passives. This is not the case of physical damage, which is only driven by the weapon and the mods on it. Everything else is just added at the end.
Bam! That is why you can have such stupid situation where lvl5 weapon-Quilrain-being a viable choice for elemental ranger but if physical ranger used similar option, he would have to bore monsters to death because he would surely not kill them.

Im starting to come to the conclusion, that everything is supposed to be weak except mobs.

GRRRR! Fuck,

Anyways, sorry, ranting. Getting just mildly annoyed at GGG and their over all lack of response on some serious issues around here. Hopefully, the Q&A With Blizza... i mean Chris, goes over well, and answers some of these long time running questions.

My first build of OB was frenzy crit physical bow shadow. A huge failure, of course. Mostly, because my tiny damage from phys bows made it take a billion hits to kill anything. And of course, that frenzy skill that's a huge mana drain and Mind Drinker would not leech much because of damage reduction.

Anyways, physical bows suck because physical damage sucks in small quantities, it all so much cancelled out by mob armor. If you have same DPS, but slow, stronger blows such as from a two-hander with phys dam supports, then it's fine.

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it all gets cancelled out by mob armor.

And yet all the player armor in the world, players still getting one and two hit all over the game.

Anyways , back on topic.

except burning arrow has 30% additional damage which derives from physical. Has 10% chance to ignite which even more damage, eats less mana And less succeptableto mana entropy.
Lvl 1 burning arrow is 8 mana roughly 1.4 attacks per second=11.2 mana, frenzy is 18+ 2.1 attacks per second which is 37.8(48) mana per second.(grieveous, for every 1 frenzy strike I can shoot 4 burning arrow without,takin mana regeneration into account.) It is like 11% damage increase per mana for burning arrow vs 2.4% damage increase per mana for frenzy lvl 19.
So I would say lvl1 burning arrow is usually better then lvl 19 frenzy. Frenzy is good if you have no access to as effective skill as burning arrow, or You need things dead now and you are ready to drink potions one after another, Bosses come in mind. It is particulary awesome for blood magic tank builds, because all damage comes from skill itself rather then from passives and you can focus on defences and life regeneration only.(hint duelist can get 40% cost reduction from the tree if you are interested in non BM build.)
Oh and before you go too far frenzy+LMP+culing strike+additional fire damage+ faster attacks is like whoping 44 mana peruse or morethen 88 per second. Are you running eldritch battery or blood magic? Faster attacks is not that effective 50% increased attack speed best case for 15% more mana cost seems ineffective for skill having already whoping 80%. I would argue culing strike though but again damage inrease moresuits burning arrowthen frenzy but whatever if you get it for effect then ok.
Skills I'dlookat this point mana leach,chance to flee,pierce,knockback,increased critical strikes,increased critical damage(in place of culing strike). All of them rather cheap and yield good offensive or defensive bonuses.(btv critical damage support without crit damage passives gives around 300% critical damage hits).
What curses you use? Frenzy due to how t is designed seems to benefit better from offensive curses then defencive. You don't really need all that offesive nodes.

If bows have weak physical damage(quiver, bow, rings) (watches in direction of wands), well then it is pretty good damage. Average Thicket bow with max attack speed.
19-24,100% localdamageincrease and 12-24 additional physical damage and 24-39 from quivers and rings gives 86-135. Pretty considerable damage for bows Wands don't get even this and yet they are pretty good.