Best Cyclone Weapon Pros vs Cons: Atziri's Disfavor, Starforge, or Ngamahu's Flame?

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coaa a écrit :

It in fact, has quite a bit LESS radius then disfavor.

There is a few different pure phys builds posted on the forums right now and the math (unless they are wrong) actually shows disfavor ahead of pure phys starforge while offering more range and splitting some of the damage via elemental so reflect doesn't hurt as much. It's not a massive difference, it basically boils down to what you have then build around it.

I've checked it, if you dont take sword nodes for +1 range with Disfavour, and dont use AoE gem, then Starforge has the same AoE for cyclone as Disfavour.

I play Sunder with Disfavour (for obvious reasons, i cant use Starforge), and i still use Brutality gem. You know why? Because it provides tremendous damage boost compared to other gems. For cyclone, instead of Brutality, i dont even know what gem you'll use... You link it to Melee Physical, Maim, Ruthless and Damage on Full life, and at this point, all good DPS options are exhausted. You either are forced to use Concentrated Effect (that dumpsters your AoE), or use a shit like Added Fire damage. Vs bosses Concentrated Effect is a good option, but Damage on full life isnt so good (as you often take damage).
Dont forget, that elemental damage is reduced by enemy's resistance, and bosses have 30-40% of it, and much more in EE/elem resist map.
As for physical reflect, i already said - you take Slayer and you forget about it, period.
And extra bleed chance on Disfavour doesnt matter, because cyclone hits too often anyway.

Sure, Disfavour is a good option as well. But Starforge is better.

Shock and bleed are neither the best things to be applied with cyclone on bosses, heavy strike/cleave easily beats it in that.

HoA overkill dmg still works with brutality.

If we wanted to nitpick bleed, it does not take too much investment to get chance to bleed and in that case it scales better off starforge, than disfavour, because of the higher base phys dmg.

Doing uber atziri with a cyclone build, I salute you, must be really tedious compared to a bow/mine build.

From my experience both disfavour and starforge are lacking in the single target department for major bosses -which once you get up to a nice level of gear are the only things that really matter. Trash just explodes no matter what weapon you use. Clear speed isn't really effected too much by having extra range in my experience - it feels nicer and probably is quicker, but i didn't notice much of a difference losing the range. What i did notice is how my new Ngam spec destroys bosses in comparison and i'd take that over what felt like marginally smoother trash clears.

You can't compete with 2 x 6 link damage skills working together at once.

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pengant a écrit :

From my experience both disfavour and starforge are lacking in the single target department for major bosses -which once you get up to a nice level of gear are the only things that really matter. Trash just explodes no matter what weapon you use. Clear speed isn't really effected too much by having extra range in my experience - it feels nicer and probably is quicker, but i didn't notice much of a difference losing the range. What i did notice is how my new Ngam spec destroys bosses in comparison and i'd take that over what felt like marginally smoother trash clears.

You can't compete with 2 x 6 link damage skills working together at once.

Quite sure you can, but not with cyclone:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1985677

No matter what I tried on my Starforge Cycloner, I couldn't get past ~500k DpS...
Unless I'm really generous in poB, clicking all kinds of stuff I'm quite sure have no uptime at all... stuff like "Shaper is shocked" by my 5% shock chance jewel, Phase run gives me 30% more, pulling frenzy charges out of my ass...

But it helps tremendously to just have a second starforge with heavy strike.
I'm now playing a "moderate version" of the build guide linked above (no crit, no abyssus), "somewhat realistic DpS" is getting pretty close to 1 million (slightly less against shaper, due to vulnerability resistance).

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Also, while Ngamahu's is pretty easy to get, this has a hefty price tag:

Iam not sure man this is my cycloner and it has over 600k dmg without frenzy,onslough,killet recently
and its way stronger then a disfavor build.. https://pastebin.com/ke0a6i3i

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mysticzero1 a écrit :

Iam not sure man this is my cycloner and it has over 600k dmg without frenzy,onslough,killet recently
and its way stronger then a disfavor build.. https://pastebin.com/ke0a6i3i

Nice gears.

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mysticzero1 a écrit :

Iam not sure man this is my cycloner and it has over 600k dmg without frenzy,onslough,killet recently
and its way stronger then a disfavor build.. https://pastebin.com/ke0a6i3i

That's 500k Shaper/Guardian DpS with Warchief & Blood Rage & all flasks ...
~300k if you run out of flasks.
Pretty much the same number I got on my berserker.

(btw, I noted Hatred and Herald of Ash for some reason increase your PoB DpS by a tiny bit, even though you use Starforge.. how come?)

From a cost/value approach. I don't think anything can beat Nghamu's.

The Xoph's blood ammy is nice but isn't a must have. You can build up towards Avatar of Fire and take the life nodes along the way to not make it a complete waste.

I've played ngahamu's cyclone since the axe was released since I feel like the molten burst gives me better sustain on bosses (with vaal pact).

It's really preference...but at the end of the day you can get a flame axe build going for less than an exalt where as the other options will cost you 7ish ex or so as a starting point.

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Prisus a écrit :

From a cost/value approach. I don't think anything can beat Nghamu's.

The Xoph's blood ammy is nice but isn't a must have. You can build up towards Avatar of Fire and take the life nodes along the way to not make it a complete waste.

I've played ngahamu's cyclone since the axe was released since I feel like the molten burst gives me better sustain on bosses (with vaal pact).

It's really preference...but at the end of the day you can get a flame axe build going for less than an exalt where as the other options will cost you 7ish ex or so as a starting point.

I can confirm this. While the amulet would be better pathing to AoF and taking the life nodes along the way isnt the worst you can do. The axe itself carries you far on a 6S alone and every further investment makes it better. You start low but have a nice ceiling to scale. I am currently playing a Pathfinder with QotF and the Axe in SSF and am having a blast. Maps are alch and go, lab is super fast and bossing is alright.

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Prisus a écrit :

It's really preference...but at the end of the day you can get a flame axe build going for less than an exalt where as the other options will cost you 7ish ex or so as a starting point.

Starting point for a Starforge build would be 1 chaos Kondo's Pride.
Starting point for a Disfavour build would be 1 chaos Kaom's Primacy.

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We're comparing apples and oranges here.

Ngamahu and Brain Rattler are cyclone weapons that I would call "build enabling".
You scale projectile damage via Point Blank/Iron Grip, you aim for full damage conversion, you're maybe trying to also get elemental overload... In the end, you have a build that cannot be played with another weapon.

Starforge and Disfavour are just generic DpS weapons.
Yes, they have some nice little side effects, like the life and AoE on Starforge, but in the end, they are comparable to rare weapons. They appear in build guide titles not because they are build enabling, but because they are "available". You enter "Starforge" in poe.trade and you find one.

You could play the same builds with 400-500 DpS rares, that's just a bit lower DpS, or with 6-7-800+ DpS mirrored rares, that would be just better.