Best Cyclone Weapon Pros vs Cons: Atziri's Disfavor, Starforge, or Ngamahu's Flame?

I have a decent amount of money saved up so I want to make a cyclone build. Can you guys help me decide which weapon and build to use. It would be nice if you all list out the pros and cons of each weapon and if send build links to further the descussion. Brain Rattler is also an option, however I don't hear many people talk about it.

They all work, they all clear fast, shaper has fallen to all of them.

It's a matter of taste, not efficiency.

Max Str
get few Dex

gear

become an immortal god

Ngamahu: cheapest, insane singletarget with molten strike if you have the treshold jewels and teh helm enchant.

Starforge vs Disfavour is a different question as you would play pure cyclone with them.

But it is pretty easy to see, that Starforge is way better, because even tho you lose the option to use hatred/hoa, the basedmg and the new phys support gems make up for it, , as ele resists on mobs don't screw with your dmg, pair it with a couple chance to shock jewels and it will demolish pretty much everything, while having various options for your mana pool to reserved for, such as defensive auras or simply go BM.

+ it is way cheaper

Disfavour I think is mainly for sunder/awc builds, but correct, me if I'm wrong, I don't see where it could be better.

"

krenderke a écrit :

Disfavour I think is mainly for sunder/awc builds, but correct, me if I'm wrong, I don't see where it could be better.

Disfavour has +2 support gems, which is AMAZING when used with curses, enhance and empower.
Put cyclone in your chest, and enjoy your stupidly broken blasphemy auras.

Also, Starforge and Disfavour are not restricted to be played as pure cyclone.
You can also run a singletarget attack, if you want to. I don't see how Ngamahu may use such a setup, but Starforge may not.

e.g. single target on weapon swap:

"

Peterlerock a écrit :

"

krenderke a écrit :

Disfavour I think is mainly for sunder/awc builds, but correct, me if I'm wrong, I don't see where it could be better.

Disfavour has +2 support gems, which is AMAZING when used with curses, enhance and empower.
Put cyclone in your chest, and enjoy your stupidly broken blasphemy auras.

Curses are worthless if you don't scale curse effect from the tree, and that is there for ES builds to layer their defenses, but even they are rather scaling purities atm to do that.

"

krenderke a écrit :

Curses are worthless if you don't scale curse effect from the tree, and that is there for ES builds to layer their defenses, but even they are rather scaling purities atm to do that.

"Skittering Runes" is just 2 steps away from the scion life wheel.

And curses are certainly not wortless when supported by lvl 6 empower and lvl 6 enhance.
+40% quality
+5 levels

Your vulnerability will let monsters take ~60% increased damage (free brutality/conc effect), TC will slow for crazy 60%.
Both numbers excluding curse effect from tree and blasphemy quality.

"

Peterlerock a écrit :

Skittering Runes" is just 2 steps away from the scion life wheel.

And curses are certainly not wortless when supported by lvl 6 empower and lvl 6 enhance.
+40% quality
+5 levels

Your vulnerability will let monsters take ~60% increased damage (free brutality/conc effect), TC will slow for crazy 60%.
Both numbers excluding curse effect from tree and blasphemy quality.

That's all good, but when you are considering the 60 and 80% less curse effect on bosses it is not that amazing anymore, level 6 empower making most curses like 10% more effective(enhance is harder to evaluate), skittering+blasphemy is 30% inc, resulting in 143% curse effect, which is 57% against regular bosses ( up from 40%), let alone getting more, than 1 curse comes with significant currency investment or tradeoffs.

As for trash mobs, I don't think you need this at all, since they won't hurt you and even an unlinked dmg gem will demolish them at this gear level (seriously I can clear T15 maps with tornado shot-gmp-chain on my archer, which is 2 less modifier in a 3 link setup)

Mana multipliers:
Empower:1.25
Enhance 1.15
Curse reservation 35% ->>>50.31%
With level 6 enlighten ->> 40.25

If you want to run 2, then you have to dedicate an entire 6link for the setup,(curse-curse-blasp-enh-emp-enl), you need a +1 curse amulet (or an inefficient tree with reservation nodes/whispers of doom), unreserved mana around 20%.

Now compare the cost of level 4 enhance,empower (you may get away with a lower level enlighten), +1 curse amulet of choice to just simply running a warchief totem in that 6link, which is alone granting you 18% more dmg + scaling off of 123% of your base dmg before adding support gems to it and may soak up some dmg instead of you, then if you insist on cursing just use a 4link setup for it without the super expensive gems.

Might be marginally better, than this, but I'm lazy to do the math for it.

Normall on ES builds I play and need the curses I take all the effect on the tree (40%), ofc have blasphemy and use a helmet enchant with curse effect enchant for the most important on (+30%, so 50% and 80% for the chosen one)


But in the end curses suffer the same thing, hatred/hoa suffers from against bosses, which is them being way less effective, than anticipated.

Curses are cool, until you realised Guardians & Shapers are 80% reduced effect of curses, far worst then elemental resistence they have.

Curses sure work for trash mods & regular bosses, although most fell like nominos already to make signifcant difference if you roll with either of the 3 end gear Cyclone builds.

I am not saying curves are not good, but they their actual damage abit inflated against end bosses

Anyway, Nagmahu builds usually roll with Cylcone for AOE, & molten strike for single target, while Starforge/Disfavoured usually have Cylcone as main attack & Warchief as suppliment damage boost, so there is a playstyle difefrences.


Some builds I recommended:

Slayer Starforge Cylcone (The one I am rolling now)
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1966232

Slayer Ngamahu Cyclone
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1819239

Raider Starforge Cyclone
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1951903

Not going to endlessly discuss that with you, I only wanted to bring up one very interesting thing disfavour can do that cannot be done with starforge:
+2 support being put to use, doing something way more meaningful than a couple %damage points you usually get.

But you may want to take a look here to see how tame triple cursed guardians are (even with 80% less curse effect, look at mino's attackspeed)...
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1830265
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk2EfWM7Cks&feature=youtu.be