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Nurvus a écrit :
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CyberWizardB5 a écrit :
About this new mechanic, it is a quite complex one, IMO it should be something simple using already existing mechanics (new mechanics are prone to new bugs)
My suggestion is only complex in paper - and no more complex than the Leech mechanic itself, with the limited Life per second, different independent instances of Leech, a total Leech per second cap based on max Life, etc.
My suggestion is simple:
If you take too much damage in a small amount of time, odds are you fucked up.
So instead of being punished with an instant death, you get a "warning".
That warning is Trauma.
It lowers your sustain and perhaps your movement speed.
If you keep fucking up, Trauma will stack up, further reducing your sustain and movement speed, and eventually you'll be overwhelmed by damage and die.
So in practical terms - if you take lots of damage per second and keep facetanking, Vaal Pact won't keep you alive for long.
Avoiding heavy damage for a while will drop the stacks.
I'd actually add an extra aspect to the mechanic - after 10 seconds without taking "heavy damage", Trauma starts losing stacks 1 by 1 instead of all at once.
Updated Suggestion:
How would you make this mechanics interact with DOT or many hits p/ sec? Would you reset the damage counter and apply the debuff every 1 sec? Else you could receive all 10 stacks of debuff in less than a sec
Or maybe apply this mechanic only on big hits? (for this we alredy have stun as a penalty)
I also think a 10 sec debuff is too much, we're talking about a game where, currently, battles lasts only few secs (exept for bosses) and even without VP ppl heal to full in another 3 secs
1 change so drastical would make most POE's players wanna kill someone...
Dernière édition par CyberWizardB5#5099, le 23 mai 2017 à 12:07:39
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MasterTBC a écrit :
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Marxone a écrit :
Can you name the "one shots" you are talking about?
Excavation Bosses trigger me more than they should, having 2/3 immune and inleachabke bosses that spam AoE covering the entire arena which is composed of 6 small ramps wtf srsly.
Also Gorge Eyepecker that roots you for 4 seconds and then burns you down with poison.
Atoll totem got nerfed, i guess it one-shot too many ppl so now it does only 3-4k dmg if you get hit once by the nova, you can still get wombo-comboed tho.
Dernière édition par Lothorienn#2149, le 23 mai 2017 à 11:52:59
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Posté parLothorienn#2149le 23 mai 2017 à 11:52:23
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Yes, "one-shots" are a thing. Anyone re-rolling a rare map has probably admitted such a thing to themselves even if they don't want to admit to it publicly in this thread. :-)
It is an extremely complicated problem that probably cannot be reasonably solved but perhaps mitigated?
Some of the threads discussing Vaal Pact have gone over some interesting angles on this topic.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired! Dernière édition par Turtledove#4014, le 23 mai 2017 à 12:27:13
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Posté parTurtledove#4014le 23 mai 2017 à 12:25:49
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Marxone a écrit :
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You guys are slowly bickering your way out of the topic - if certain builds didn't reach such huge amounts of sustain (usually coupled with huge damage), the devs wouldn't need excessive damage bursts to "threaten" those builds.
There is a lot of truth in this, but also reason why to dismiss this tread all together :)
Since there are builds that can mitigate all the damage, why to change anything?
As there is spike dmg that can kill you, you have 2 choices - play to survive, or play to go around it.
For HC, play to survive is usually the case - focusing on defenses and killing from distance. Does it limit your build choice? Absolutely. But it is still a CHOICE. GitGood argument applies if you want to play your own way, don't complain for screwing up and killing yourself.
For example, i play also D3 and Grim Dawn, two ARPGs that are competition of PoE.
D3 - has cheat death, but otherwise you can get spikes pretty much as well and die instantly in GR70+
Grim Dawn - there isn't a oneshot perse but you can get spiked quickly as well.
Both games have different pot management, which means that PoE is probably deadliest from all these 3 since you can have utility pots and 2-3 insta life pots which helps you mitigate the dmg spikes. But there is aren't any unavoidable mechanics in PoE, as mentioned by Aim_Deep , you can always build to mitigate , and everything in PoE can be mitigated, even the double flame blast from Atziri. It just takes game knowledge and build char that way. I don't think the game should be more forgiving to misplay by new players. Where would be the motivation - it would be like D3 - you play one week of the new season and then drop the game as there is no incentive in playing further as you reach the gear gap.
Big ES pool and Vaal Pact is only one of the ways to play around oneshots. There are many many more which are not being nerfed.
Dont forget the third choice to avoid one shot besides "play to survive, or play to go around it." Play to end it before mobs can mount any offense.:P Total glass cannon.
3K life does shaper fine one shots even 17 mobs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAcDdlje-S8
OFC most experienced player do a matrix of all 3 methods (go around it, good EHP choices, good DPS) and are successful and don't make silly threads like this. The reward in this game is figuring that matrix out.
Git R Dun! Dernière édition par Aim_Deep#3474, le 23 mai 2017 à 13:33:01
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Posté parAim_Deep#3474le 23 mai 2017 à 13:15:57
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CyberWizardB5 a écrit :
This tread is about excessive sustain and it's impact on player choices leading to a game where you can heal to full in a instant but also die in a instant
The faster a player can heal to full the easier the game will look like, the faster he will advance to stronger maps, and the only way to stop such a player is to kill him even faster than he can heal
Without excessive sustain normal mobs will feel much more chalenging without killing you in a instant, the game can turn into a game of atriction where your HP may drop but not so fast that you can't react to it
Without the hability to heal to full twice a second or more, monsters damage can be threatening even if it takes over 2 seconds to drain your hp pool, your damage buffer will be far less important and the damage mitigation a lot more effective
The game can be rebalanced around defenses, no more life builds running the entire skill tree to colect life because defenses will be more effective than pure life
The point is nonsense. you can do end game with no insta leech whatsoever but with great mitigation instead. But OFC the investment to do that is way more than 1 fucking VP node so few are doing it. I have a better idea. Delete VP then ppl can learn other methods of survival.
Do not nerf any monster. Hell bring back original invasion IMO and make whole game scary again.
Git R Dun! Dernière édition par Aim_Deep#3474, le 23 mai 2017 à 13:52:05
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Posté parAim_Deep#3474le 23 mai 2017 à 13:46:35
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Aim_Deep a écrit :
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CyberWizardB5 a écrit :
This tread is about excessive sustain and it's impact on player choices leading to a game where you can heal to full in a instant but also die in a instant
The faster a player can heal to full the easier the game will look like, the faster he will advance to stronger maps, and the only way to stop such a player is to kill him even faster than he can heal
Without excessive sustain normal mobs will feel much more chalenging without killing you in a instant, the game can turn into a game of atriction where your HP may drop but not so fast that you can't react to it
Without the hability to heal to full twice a second or more, monsters damage can be threatening even if it takes over 2 seconds to drain your hp pool, your damage buffer will be far less important and the damage mitigation a lot more effective
The game can be rebalanced around defenses, no more life builds running the entire skill tree to colect life because defenses will be more effective than pure life
The point is nonsense. you can do end game with no leech whatsoever with great mitigation instead. But OFC the investment to do that is way more than 1 fucking VP node so few are doing it. I have a better idea. Delete VP then ppl can learn other methods of survival.
He was just presenting what an alternative might be. Calling it nonsense is a bit harsh. Deleting VP or at least nerfing it might be part of an alternative method that allows GGG to reduce "one-shot" massive damage hits? Like I said though it really is an extremely complicated subject and without having a better understanding of the PoE code I think it a difficult thing for us to understand well.
Over 430 threads discussing labyrinth problems with over 1040 posters in support (thread # 1702621) Thank you all! GGG will implement a different method for ascension in PoE2. Retired!
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Posté parTurtledove#4014le 23 mai 2017 à 13:55:04
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Aim_Deep a écrit :
Do not nerf any monster. Hell bring back original invasion IMO and make whole game scary again.
I like how you only think that monsters can be scary if they one shot.
Rather than an alternative where monsters won't one shot, but they each do hefty DPS which makes them scary.
Especially since DPS is inherently scarier than burst. Since burst you get bitten once, but then you know to expect random one shots worth of damagee.
DPS you get to see your health bar drain and know that whatever you do, you can't escape your fate (For example, if you accidentally wipe out a Corrupted Bloodline pack and sit there bleeding to death with nothing you can do. Far more terrifying than being completely fine until you're not). Even more so if it can lull you into a sense of false security, for example by making you think you can handle the content, but then your flasks all run dry and you stop being able to handle things (Of course, in SC you'd then die then have full flasks again to start over...)
But of course, this DPS monster gameplay is not possible so long as ridiculous VP and LGoH sustain exists and while PC damage insta-gibs screens of enemies.
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Posté parTarille#6639le 23 mai 2017 à 14:28:56
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Aim_Deep a écrit :
The point is nonsense. you can do end game with no insta leech whatsoever but with great mitigation instead. But OFC the investment to do that is way more than 1 fucking VP node so few are doing it. I have a better idea. Delete VP then ppl can learn other methods of survival.
Do not nerf any monster. Hell bring back original invasion IMO and make whole game scary again.
One of the ideas presented here IS delete VP, nerf monsters will not solve anything, the idea is make monsters threatening without the need of damage spikes
Without excessive sustain and damage spikes, damage mitigation will become much more important and effective maybe even more than a large damage buffer
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Dude there are no one shots if you build tanky i showed that in vid above tanking hardest hit in the game with life. People just dont want to because with VP leech you only need to sacrifice 1 Skill point and can stack DPS for funzies. So no monster dam does not need to be nerfed.
Git R Dun!
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Posté parAim_Deep#3474le 23 mai 2017 à 18:02:26
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Most of the "oneshots" you posted (besides f.e. volitile) are mechanical oneshots. A boss telegraphs a slam and you have to dodge it. Thats called player skill. If you want an arpg with the game taking your hand, be unpunishing and just take you trhough the game without you doing any thinking: play diablo3
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