Lets talk armor (the stat)
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Armour is pretty useless by itself but when layered with things like Fortify, Arctic Armour, Enfeeble, and any Phys to Elem Damage Taken stat, it becomes a whole lot better.
Most people think that when you get 40k plus armour, your good against physical. Armour is a form of mitigation that anyway can use. Whether it be Life or Hybrid or CI. But you can't just use it alone and expect results. |
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Armour should work against elemental hits at 33% effectiveness or so.
At the moment, the investment doesn't give you back the same return as just getting Endurance charges or other forms of mitigation. My build guides:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2180198 Taking a break from PoE, catch me up in Warframe: https://www.warframe.com/signup?referrerId=5b625847f2f2eb0ea0750322 Use above link for free booster when you sign up! :) |
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" That google dock links to something irrelevant and unimportant. What actually matters is absolute amount of damage prevented. Obviously the percentage should go down against larger hits if you keep the flat amount prevented. Armour is comparable to energy shield, not elemental resistances. |
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I think that Armour is a little weaker than it should be due to it only working against physical damage.
I don't think that only working against physical damage is a bad thing, but I think Armour could be a little more useful. How about Armour giving some sort of reduction to critical hit damage, regardless of source or type? Its thematic with wearing armour to cover your weak spots, and is similar to Evasion giving you a chance to avoid critical damage. |
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" What kills people is not one shots. It's a quick succession or hits that end up killing them, or dots, or whatever, but it isn't one shots ( unless they play with 2 secs reactions, where some telegraphed hits will land at some point ). Evasion isn't better, evasion is worse for melee/tanking purposes, but it's great for ranges, since with the entropy system and targets with different dmg output hitting at the same time, the potential damage you will take will be higher. " Thank you for showing that you didn't read my message, you could have been more irrelevant here. " Armour IS still a threat in endgame anda big one, holy cow do you people play the game or are you just repeating what you see on the forum to try to look smart ? It isn't working. " Ok, so just that you know, very hard combinations = elemental damage. If you dodge the telegraphed hits, then that means that you didn't tank him, but it's more dangerous, in which case armour or evasion does not matter much. " Let's allow close-to immortal builds with inconsistent mechanics, great idea .... " That is a much better suggestion already imho. There is one armour cluster that significantly reduces crit dmg taken though. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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" thats not rly how the balance works though. Every character is presumed to have 75% res, thats a baseline amount that they tune damage too. Es, Ev and Ar are the 3 basic defense types, 2 of those provide 0 phys mitigation, so theyre working from closer to 0% phys reduction as a baseline for tuning phys damage. If ur an armour build ull really want more than 10k tbh, thats not a proper setup. Most of my armour builds are juggers and that warps your totals but I have an Iron Reflex gladiator, hes got about 15k armour. Now thats with a 600 chest, 650 hat and a 400 shield, no armour/evasion on boots or gloves, and I still have 15k armour despite not taking any pure ar/ev nodes, just life or es nodes (its a hybrid life+es build) that also had evasion on them. If I put on a 1600 shield, a 2000 chest, 400 boots, 400 gloves etc Id probably be over 30k without investing anything into it in terms of passives that I wouldnt have taken anyway just for the life/es apart from the 1 IR node. Hes got 8,844 combined hp, 70/70 block, full crit sword build, aegis shield. If youre going for just life + armour I think ur looking at 20k+. Evasion is easier to get mathematically more damage reduction, for sure. But its one of those things where its technically better numbers but the reality of it is that where it counts more its worse. Its the same with the famous rory quote that technically life has better defense options. The maths shows life builds can have significantly better ehp on paper, technically thats true, but the 95% of situations where its better are arguably not as important as the very small % of 1 shots that exist in the 5% where es is better, thats where people are looking for their defenses to perform and finding es is superior. How many times have I died to extreme elemental damage on life builds in the last 5,000 hours ive played? Probably 4 times tops, its a really small amount of times it matters, but its still 4 deaths and my es builds have probably died less in situations where the life ones are superior even tho thats most situations. Im not bashing evasion though, I think evasion is awesome and actually I dont have any armour builds that dont have either 12k+ evasion on top or really high block. I wouldnt play armour, evasion or even es on its own, thats my take on them tbh. Id be more inclined to play pure es than the other 2 but even then I can stack other defenses with it so I do so because it just feels way safer. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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I'll admit I haven't read every post in detail here. But I'm actually kind of surprised how many forum posters actually appreciate Armour for its strengths and weaknesses nowadays. If I had to put money on it, I would have bet that the only responses you'd see to this thread are "yeah, armour is trash, armour is trash." But I guess more and more people are actually trying it out and finding out it isn't so bad, lol.
I'm not sure how to feel about Armour's dependence on Endurance Charges, though. Flat PDR acts as a literal multiplier to Armour's effectiveness, so builds that don't use Endurance Charges are instantly going to get much worse defense from Armour than builds that do. In contrast, Evasion doesn't have any real "mandatory synergies," you can get Dodge or you can skip it, you can get Arrow Dancing or skip it, Blind or skip it, it doesn't change the base defensive power of Evasion (other than Arrow Dancing, of course, but only vs projectile attacks and at the cost of lower melee attack evade). I wonder how the game would feel if Armour got a straight buff (such as lowering the hit coefficient again, from 10 to 8 or something), but gave Less Physical Damage Taken instead of PDR%? Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/
Contact support@grindinggear.com for account issues. Check out How to Report Bugs + Post Images at: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/18347 |
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" Mitigation from armour is relative to incoming damage, and does not take endurances charges into account for this calculations afaik, they happen at the same time. The fact that they stack additively ( as opposed to dodge + evade for example ), does mean that they will have more effect together than on their own though. I just wanted to clarify this. " I don't know if that's all tbh, entropy makes it so that the potential incoming damage can be higher in some cases making it more dangerous, that is true. But tbh, I feel way less safe on my high evasion + dodge and spell dodge ( QotF and Dreamfeather, with a shield ) than on a armour + block build. My previous armour + block character had other defensive mechanics, but still ..... Some of the physical spells in the game ( quite many now ) do not help. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading. Dernière édition par Fruz#6137, le 6 avr. 2017 à 22:18:36
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" Aye,
Way too much rambling
perhaps I've been exposed too much to D3 forum idiocy,
but in my experience, gamers have trouble understanding the mathematical behavior of reductions. Reductions literally give increasing returns to the thing that they embiggen. The most obvious case of this is +x% maximum elemental resistance, for any POE player who has ever looked into it, you probably know by now that you pretty much have to multiply by 4 to get the equivalent less damage modifier since 75% is assumed to be baseline; 5% increased maximum elemental resistances is frequently said to be equivalent to 20% less elemental damage taken. You go from taking 25% damage to 20% damage, and 20/25 = 80%, and 100%-80% is 20%. The 4 is not arbitrary; it is one point along the rational function 1/x as you go asymptotically towards infinity. For example if the baseline were 90%, you would multiply by as much as 10; when you are at 98% elemental resistances you multiply by 50. However, you still get plenty of this effect with Endurance Charges. I forget how I worded it to be most easily understood before, but EHP effect of reductions is reciprocal; a 20% reduction is a (1-0.2=) 80% multiplier, which means it embiggens your survival time by 1/0.8 = 25%. The most intuitive example is 50% reduction; if you have 10 HP and usually take 2 damage per hit, you die in 5 hits. But tack on 50% reduction and you take 1 damage per hit, and die in 10 hits. 10/5 = 200%, or 1/0.5. So 50% reduced does not produce 50% increased effect, it produces 100% increased. For Endurance Charges, this means that having 6 endurance charges grants 24% PDR, or a 76% multiplier on which to base "further reductions" like with +x% max resists. 1/0.76 = 1.3158. So having 6 ECs is literally like having 31.6% more Armour compared to someone with 0 ECs. But 24% is "relatively low;" you can easily get 7, 8, 9, 10 ECs or more as a Juggernaut, plus add Soul of Steel, and Chaos Golem. The increasing returns gets crazy. EDIT: Since I'm rambling anyways. Fruz, I don't know if you were around for the last real fustercluck thread on Armour mechanics I was in, and if you were, what position you took on this... But I motherclucking insist that Armour investment scales EHP linearly. Period. But people always miss that. The whole (a/(a+y)) formula has the effect of causing x% more Armour to mean x% more EHP contribution against Physical Hits. For example, against hits of size 1000, every 1000 Armour is +10% EHP. Have 4000 Armour? That's like 40% "more Life" against hits of size 1000. 6000 Armour? That's like 60% "more Life" against hits of size 1000. Then people have to get annoying and say "durrr but hit size diminishes the returns, even though that's not what diminishing returns even means." But it still works. Against hits of size 2000, every 2000 Armour is +10% EHP. Have 4000 Armour? that's like 20% "more Life" against hits of size 2000. 6000 Armour? That's like 30% "more Life" against hits of size 2000. No matter what, your Armour investment is scaling your EHP linearly. Linearly!!! No diminishing returns!!! Instead they just handwave it away by picking bigger and bigger hit sizes and smaller and smaller Armour values until they can say "see, it's useless against bigger hits, so it's completely useless overall due to diminishing returns." That's not how math works goddamnit!!!! Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/ Contact support@grindinggear.com for account issues. Check out How to Report Bugs + Post Images at: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/18347 Dernière édition par adghar#1824, le 6 avr. 2017 à 22:36:38
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I might have missed that armour thread, idk.
But yeah, the flat damage reduction from armour increases linearly with the strength of the hit. But people's expectations seem to be that they expect the proportional value to increase linearly, which would be way to strong. SSF is not and will never be a standard for balance, it is not for people entitled to getting more without trading.
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