Crit vs. Non-crit Builds : Do non-crit builds need a buff?

guys..

problem you 'fix' with a keystone remains unfixed

what you want to do is to turn build 'diversity' into 'select one keystone or other keystone'. it is a very bad solution that solves NOTHING

i do not know why people still cannot understand that the crit has to be nerfed - thus making non-crit shine again. yes, it hurts, and some builds wont be as good as before. but currently crit has almost all the toys and even the 'non crit' stuff (controlled destruction) works best with crit - it has to be gutted

otherwise youll force players into a choice: play crit when all the good stuff is and choices can be made OR play non crit but theyn you HAVE to take this and this and this.

keystone IS NOT a solution. never was. never will.
My 2 cents on this:

-Buff elemental ailments effects

-Remove elemental ailments from crit
-Add +10-15% chance to couse ailments behind rt

This Will give players a choice between raw damage or ailments


Alternative turn RT into a purely defensive node say:

-Cant crit
-Less attack, cast and movement speed
-More life
-Take 1% less elemental/chaos damage every "x" armor




self found league fan

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/324242/page/1

Dernière édition par caboom#7201, le 18 janv. 2017 à 06:35:43
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Bananaplasm a écrit :


There are very few on-hit builds that are remotely better than a crit Version. Especially ignite which doesn't even need a high crit Chance and poison which steamrolls with an assassin. The hidden potential build was comparatively shit and Berserker is only good, because of The build in leech. It's basically deadeye just in melee. Straight forward and boring. Kripp was using hidden potential, because no one else does and he could be hipster.

One of The reasons crit is so good, is because of the subtle powercreep. Increased modifiers used to be smaller. Now they scale infinetly better on gear than on the tree or are covered by ascendencies. You can still get your 400% increased while running 300% multi at 50%. Of course excluding items like abyssus that just destroy anything.



you can do the same with double dip though because of ascendancies
you can make spell caster berserkers too can make ci zerkers too.. its about 5 - 6 nodes of inefficiency but then again spell casters do need some str.

kripp did what he did because it was dirt cheap and poe is not his main game anymore. dont give him so much credit. money is without a doubt the larger motivator there.

crit only makes sense when it is easy .. so considering how much crit is also next to all the chaos and poison it is generally a no brainier to go assassin.

plus there is far less chaos damage on the tree than other damage sources

fire double dip is a completely different thing.

Dernière édition par Saltychipmunk#1430, le 18 janv. 2017 à 07:06:19
Bumping this back up now that the xbox controversy has mostly passed.


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sidtherat a écrit :
guys..

problem you 'fix' with a keystone remains unfixed

what you want to do is to turn build 'diversity' into 'select one keystone or other keystone'. it is a very bad solution that solves NOTHING

i do not know why people still cannot understand that the crit has to be nerfed - thus making non-crit shine again. yes, it hurts, and some builds wont be as good as before. but currently crit has almost all the toys and even the 'non crit' stuff (controlled destruction) works best with crit - it has to be gutted

otherwise youll force players into a choice: play crit when all the good stuff is and choices can be made OR play non crit but theyn you HAVE to take this and this and this.

keystone IS NOT a solution. never was. never will.


It's true that the game does need a rebalance from the ground up. It remains unseen whether GGG is willing to go the distance and actually do so.

Yes, I agree with you that crit in its current state is simply far too powerful compared to non-crit builds. However, Crit needs to remain the top damage dealing build in this game.

While a new keystone wouldn't completely fix the problems, it is an easily coded stopgap solution towards buffing 2h non-crit melee until such a time a comprehensive balance pass can be done.

So, I'm proposing a decent change that allows non-crit builds, especially melee builds, to flourish.
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DDusk a écrit :
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Aim_Deep a écrit :
Two words: double dipping

for now non crit build can exceed crit. of course you can do both at same time but it's less efficient than focused builds.

For example poison non crit build I play with a shit load of general damage multipliers the Minotaur gets maybe 2 swings off if he's lucky. Much better than say the 100% crit cospri discharger I played last season.


R u saying u cant double dip with crit? :))


Yes I said so buts its less effceint. 12 grand septums + EO shits all over crit and wont allow you to take any crit.

blue gear and hidden potential similar deal because wearing all blues its very hard to get high crits with EHP and resistances.

Crit is overrated. You have old think in this thread.

Only thing is I'd like to see phys builds get its own Elemental overload. Behind RT OFC so crit guys cant touch it we need a more multi. Then no reason to play phys crit either.
Git R Dun!
Dernière édition par Aim_Deep#3474, le 23 janv. 2017 à 02:56:05
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Aim_Deep a écrit :

Yes I said so buts its less effceint. 12 grand septums + EO shits all over crit and wont allow you to take any crit.

blue gear and hidden potential same deal.

Crit is overrated. You have old think in this thread.


Let's be honest here. There's already limiting factors to a 12 grand spectrum build.

1) By itself, it's not really a problem. Yeah, you stack a lot of Increased modifiers, but you can often go even further just by running RF. Increased modifiers have diminishing returns. With ignite, yes, it's the highest dps build in the game, but we've already covered that double dipping will be nerfed if GGG does a balance pass.

2) Cost. Enough said. This is also a twofold problem as given GGG's newfound attention to SSF, good luck finding 12 of these along with gear that can support your eHP.

It's mostly niche and its power is heavily driven by double dip mechanics.

Again, anything operating on double dip mechanics is likely to fall apart when they're fixed.
Dernière édition par Tsokushin#2435, le 23 janv. 2017 à 03:15:11
With 3.0 Beta around the corner, maybe we can drum up some more discussion on the matter. Double Dipping will receive its much needed nerf, but that leaves crit as one of the easiest reigning kings (excluding lolspectre). Will 2h non-crit get some love? Still seems people are passing it by.
I really hope they address it in 3.0
Easiest way would be a few nodes behind RT, and more "chance to cause status ailments" on tree...
"Metas rotate all the time, eventually the developers will buff melee"
PoE 2013-2018
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caboom a écrit :

Alternative turn RT into a purely defensive node say:

-Cant crit
-Less attack, cast and movement speed
-More life
-Take 1% less elemental/chaos damage every "x" armor


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One part I can agree with is the separation of crit and status ailments.

This is something I've long desired. It's quite ridiculous to me that it's easier to pursue status ailments via critical strikes, which have the added benefit of more damage, than investing directly into status ailments.
"Arctic Armour was a mistake." - Chris Wilson

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