Crit vs. Non-crit Builds : Do non-crit builds need a buff?

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Emphasy a écrit :

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Peterlerock a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the non-existant "diversity" is by design, not by oversight.
GGG doesn't want people to "build around RT" and have the same damage.

Maybe they just consider it a stepping stone:
"I have shit gear and not enough passives" -> RT
"I have high resist rolls, so I can also affort accuracy and crit suffixes, and I also have the money to buy the same weapon, but with 2 additional suffixes." -> crit

That's why right next to it, you find a pretty potent crit cluster. Take it as a hint.

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When you take it like this, RT is somewhat fine.
I often take it, but transition into a little bit of crit in lategame, for a nice damage boost.
i.E.
axe -> sword + crit clusters
mace -> sceptre/staff + crit clusters

One small issue though. If you have shit equipment Crit is actually the better option because it provides easier damage. RT without good equip simply does not provide enough damage to even do something, exspecially if you are using a 1h weapon. Crit though is easy to scale, it used to be a very expensive choice but it isn't anymore.

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RT was a way to further improve your survivability, while also retaining sufficient damage, and that is what it fails to do at the moment. It blocks you from ending fights in an expediate manner, while also not improving your survivability sufficiently to compensate.

RT never provided defense. It just used to be harder to scale crit. Accuracy though... it is not something you get automatically because you need a few increases and a few flat boni, which unless you are going at least partially into dex means rolling some gear with those stats.

A good small fix for RT, which would also fit the idea of Resolute Techniques would be grant fortify on melee hit. This would open up some options for those builds and would be something that seems to fit the theme. Resolute Technique basically means that you are option for a safe reliable way to attack which would make sense if it includes being safer from enemy attacks.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

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Peterlerock a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the non-existant "diversity" is by design, not by oversight.
GGG doesn't want people to "build around RT" and have the same damage.

Reread the OP. Nowhere did I say (...)

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So, no, they shouldn't be considered stepping stones. In an ideal place, every point on the tree can serve some particular build.

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As for your ideas towards buying gear now, SSF is here. It's now best to assume you're playing without trade.

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Taking that logic to its conclusion would end the game. Every other build except for this current "meta, 1 shot the entire screen, facetank anything" build are now simply stepping stones and it's foolish trying to take them up or asking for buffs to them.

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Emphasy a écrit :

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Peterlerock a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the non-existant "diversity" is by design, not by oversight.
GGG doesn't want people to "build around RT" and have the same damage.

Maybe they just consider it a stepping stone:
"I have shit gear and not enough passives" -> RT
"I have high resist rolls, so I can also affort accuracy and crit suffixes, and I also have the money to buy the same weapon, but with 2 additional suffixes." -> crit

That's why right next to it, you find a pretty potent crit cluster. Take it as a hint.

---

When you take it like this, RT is somewhat fine.
I often take it, but transition into a little bit of crit in lategame, for a nice damage boost.
i.E.
axe -> sword + crit clusters
mace -> sceptre/staff + crit clusters

One small issue though. If you have shit equipment Crit is actually the better option because it provides easier damage. RT without good equip simply does not provide enough damage to even do something, exspecially if you are using a 1h weapon. Crit though is easy to scale, it used to be a very expensive choice but it isn't anymore.

"

RT was a way to further improve your survivability, while also retaining sufficient damage, and that is what it fails to do at the moment. It blocks you from ending fights in an expediate manner, while also not improving your survivability sufficiently to compensate.

RT never provided defense. It just used to be harder to scale crit. Accuracy though... it is not something you get automatically because you need a few increases and a few flat boni, which unless you are going at least partially into dex means rolling some gear with those stats.

A good small fix for RT, which would also fit the idea of Resolute Techniques would be grant fortify on melee hit. This would open up some options for those builds and would be something that seems to fit the theme. Resolute Technique basically means that you are option for a safe reliable way to attack which would make sense if it includes being safer from enemy attacks.

"

Peterlerock a écrit :

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Tsokushin a écrit :

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Peterlerock a écrit :

I'm pretty sure the non-existant "diversity" is by design, not by oversight.
GGG doesn't want people to "build around RT" and have the same damage.

Reread the OP. Nowhere did I say (...)

Reread my post. Nowhere did I say I am talking directly to you.

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So, no, they shouldn't be considered stepping stones. In an ideal place, every point on the tree can serve some particular build.

I share this opinion. All I wrote:
It looks like GGG does not.

We have "Crit > RT" since a very long time.
You can be 100% sure they know this, and all they ever did were some super-minor adjustments, so apparently, they don't consider it an issue.

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As for your ideas towards buying gear now, SSF is here. It's now best to assume you're playing without trade.

The mere existance of SSF doesn't mean anything, it's just here for "bragging rights" and to make the game somewhat harder to players who want it to be somewhat harder.

But even if you insist: Same applies to SSF, just with rarity instead of price.
Crit gear is rarer than non-crit gear. Harder to get.

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Taking that logic to its conclusion would end the game. Every other build except for this current "meta, 1 shot the entire screen, facetank anything" build are now simply stepping stones and it's foolish trying to take them up or asking for buffs to them.

To me, unless I go allout 100% crit chance to get something special like permanent status ailments, crit was never a "build".

It's just more damage. Nothing else.

Instead of this, I equip this:

Then I equip something like this:

...and respec ~10 points in my skilltree into crit chance/crit damage.

Watch damage jump up. Enjoy.

Same for "Melee doesn't have enough support gems".
Go crit, take crit chance and maybe crit multi gems. ;)

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nEVER_BoRN a écrit :

From my experiance crit or no crit is just way of scaling damage, what way is more globaly efficient win. Recently i played no crit build after long time and i whas more then impresed, but i usualy play DoT realted build and cant say there is difrance in damage what more non crit builds are way simpler and from what i seen Atziry/imunity gem setup whas almost no difrance in damage regarding bosses have they hiden perks for DoT.

Geting to map mods when ever i play phys crit build hair on my head rise from frustration, endurance charges, monster take reduced phys, enfeeble, reduced damage from crit, monster life, boss life.

Non crit sacaling is way better when posible with less mentainance usualy and less need for perfect and not to forget balancing all of attack calcualtions.
Honesly when ever i play berly suficient crit build i alweys finde cast on crit variation to be way more beneficial in all aspects so that can be realy anoying. Cant even say what is difrance of CoC and CWC now. Lets be real crit whas nerfed so mach alredy and when whas the last time they nerfed something else?

This days when playig crit i expect to have a realy good reson, easy scaling or on crit strike effects becouse crit for sake of crit is realy to mach truble if you not assassin and usualy waste of time with suboptimal build in maps, charges/loot anoyance and you name it.

This discasion sims more to me like Damage WS Life, honesly good build have no difrances of substancial levels that need nerfing it usualy just specific to something broken in game it self.

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nEVER_BoRN a écrit :

Frst what i see when i open page is : Nerf crit, RT suck and topic is crit ws No crit and it end up in RT descusion and how you cant use EO.

You taken a keystone, its a choce, end.
I cant speek on RT becouse i dont use it, its a choce but i can speek of Crit ws noncrit and all with DOT and what not. Its fine, ofcors broken items and what not exist but RT is not a build its a choce and if its a rong one for your build then finde a way.

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MortalKombat3 a écrit :

The problem with RT is that it's simply underpowered. It's quite easy to stack 85% hit rate, so you trade your crits for mere 15% damage... not so cool. Elemental Overload, at least, provides +40% damage, so it's more fair option.

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TreeOfDead a écrit :

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MortalKombat3 a écrit :

The problem with RT is that it's simply underpowered. It's quite easy to stack 85% hit rate, so you trade your crits for mere 15% damage... not so cool. Elemental Overload, at least, provides +40% damage, so it's more fair option.

Its much worse, 85 or 90 chance to hit you can get just from dex and no nodes, if you invest just a little bit you can do more, so RT gave even less damage then most players think.

Non crit so underpowered and weak... i dont know wtf GGG doing all this time.