Crit vs. Non-crit Builds : Do non-crit builds need a buff?

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Crit nerf?: It's been argued that crit needs a nerf. Perhaps it does, but not by means of nerfing damage. It does require people to walk the line in stacking crit and multiplier, so to lessen the rewards in damage would be counterproductive to player choice.

One part I can agree with is the separation of crit and status ailments. This should bring a lot more parity into builds utilizing status ailments. The only potential problem from this is current baseline for status effects is far too low. Taking this option might necessitate buffing status effect chance nodes from 5% to 7-10% each.

The thing that can be done though is probably a further reduction in defenses for doing so. Consider life builds attempting to amass crit. Nigh impossible to hit good % without losing lots of life. ES builds don't really have this struggle as a good portion of the crit tree is within vicinity of CI and such. But, I don't want to get into discussion of ES vs Life.

The only problem here is I haven't yet thought of a way to do this in such a balanced manner that can affect CI and leave life in a usable state. The best possible solution requires the least amount of changes and coding for the sake of keeping PoE stable, but all current ideas point towards reworking that section of the tree.

This problem isn't confined simply to Inquisitor or Assassin, although they both excel at it. Any archetype can reach excellent levels of crit.

Crit vs non-crit: Crit has undeniably higher damage than non-crit builds. For all of you bringing up non-crit builds involving double dipping, poison, currently overtuned abilities, the topic of how game-breakingingly powerful those builds are has been discussed elsewhere numerous times.

It's best to treat these builds almost like pre-nerf voltaxic. If GGG cares about quality, these builds will not retain their current strength and will unavoidably nerfed.

Melee: Melee damage (discounting already completely broken double dipping) is the most evident of crit vs non-crit disparity. Much of this thread has already discussed the problems of running 1h+shield when it comes to dps. Crit builds accomplish far more than non-crit in this regard.

This problem, however, is also present in weapon types as well, with axes (outside of Fleshrippers and lower tier variants) and maces being the largest losers overall. Lowest crit chance, and either no or undesirable implicit modifiers. The only way to efficiently boost damage for these particular weapons is going going the non-crit route, but again, less damage than a crit build with swords.

Buffing Non-crit: Rather than attempting to nerf crit, or adjust ascendancies, I'd like to shift focus onto just what ideas would work to make non-crit builds more effective, particularly melee builds.

So far, the easiest and most pain free idea I have is to rework Resolute Technique into an analog of Elemental Overload. Ideally, it should read something like this:

Resolute Technique:Increases Accuracy by 200. 20-40% more Physical Damage for 8 seconds if you've dealt a critical strike recently. You have no Critical Strike Multiplier.

I'd argue against any further damage as melee does have in its favor lots of blanket increases to damage unlike elemental damages. If you disagree, please state why.

Elemental Overload can also be moved up from 40% to 50%.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

RT is pretty much only used for either axe wielders or mace wielders. Dagger users want to utilize the crit implicit and sword users have accuracy implicits. As for capping onto a lower damage level, even without Resolute Technique, non-crit builds are at a far lower damage capability than crit builds. It can still grant that your hits can't be evaded, I just didn't want to propose something game-breakingly OP or a node that says "take this or your build will be bad".

Now, the problem with your proposed buffs is that they would also benefit crit builds as well. I'm proposing an idea that specifically buffs non-crit and leaves crit untouched. However, I do think these things can be incorporated in the tree. They can be gated behind Resolute Techniques.

So, it can be set up similar to Acrobatics and Phase Acrobatics:

Resolute Technique: Your Attacks cannot be Evaded. You have no Critical Strike Multiplier.

Beyond that keystone, we can set a small cluster that can add more melee buffs, including the ones you proposed and end it with another keystone as the Physical analog of Elemental Overload.

Maybe 3-4. 10-15% increased melee damage, 20% reduced stun threshold (axe+mace users want this as they do with resolute technique), Gain fortify for 2 Seconds on Hit. Then we cap it with a new keystone.

Devastating Momentum (or another cool name): Gain 20-40% more Physical Damage for 8 seconds on Critical Strike.

Does this seem like a better idea?

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I_NO a écrit :

RT'S dogshit.

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TheCreatek a écrit :

For melee crit is superior, for spells non crit can be even better than crit

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Higher potential leech: Very simple facet. Crit large once, get tons of leech in just a single hit. Makes for easy recovery with less risk as you only need to land something once.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Guaranteed Elemental Status Effects: This is the largest boon crit has over non-crit. You no longer need to worry about hunting down Ignite, Freeze, Shock chance modifiers, you simply stack enough Critical Chance and then you simply go to town on enemies. This simplifies curses as you only need to either run Assassin's Mark or Elemental Weakness if capped, whereas a non-elementalist build will have to utilize the respective elemental curses to boost that chance.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Far Higher Damage Potential: You can stack critical strike multiplier until the cows come home, which often ends up being a far larger damage boost in comparison to many of the "more" multipliers available in the game. This is further exacerbated due to any baseline additional damage is further enhanced by all of these critical multipliers.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

It is because of these two effects that we see the current possibilities in Vaal RF being capable of one-shotting end-game bosses. Now, while Vaal RF may indeed itself be nerfed, these colluding factors are still a large boon towards critical strike builds overall. This is especially seen in anything dealing with fire, as ignite is guaranteed on critical damage and is always affected by the initial hit.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Critical strikes always have higher damage hits than non-critical strike builds except in the few rare cases of melee attacks and 2handers. This, however, is a very rare occurance.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Now, these are all the boons to critical strikes. It's quite a boost over non-critical strike builds. What's more disturbing however, is that right in the middle of writing all of this, I was attempting to plan out the thoughts about the boons of non-crit builds but it just all falls apart when in comparison.

It's absurdly easy to reach crit-cap nowadays with anything except 2h maces and 2h axes. Even with those two, it's still obtainable to hit 50-80% which is either comparable or more dps to all non-crit builds utilizing them.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Elemental Overload: This keystone is probably key to buffing non-crit builds, not in its specific purpose but instead in its format. We essentially need more passive nodes or reworked nodes that will provide more damage at the expense of crit multiplier. Elemental overload can itself possibly be buffed to 50-60% and not have a crit trigger requirement. Just a flat buff to non-crit builds.

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Tsokushin a écrit :

Physical damage, or perhaps 2h maces and 2h axes themselves which already have the lowest crit chance, can definitely use a physical damage equivalent of Elemental Overload.

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sidtherat a écrit :

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TheCreatek a écrit :

For melee crit is superior, for spells non crit can be even better than crit

can you list these scenarios excluding
- poison double dip
- ignite double dip
- cast when channeling idiocy
- essence drain/blight (as in spells with damage values bonkers enough to work without ceit)


other than that there are very very few cases that arent simply better as crit